Therapy Roulette

Anorexia, but Make It Funny w/ Standup Comic Dave Chawner

March 18, 2021 Michele Baci / Dave Chawner Season 1 Episode 126
Therapy Roulette
Anorexia, but Make It Funny w/ Standup Comic Dave Chawner
Show Notes Transcript

Michele talks about how her priorities have changed since lockdown and how she misses performing stand-up comedy. 

Today’s guest is Dave Chawner, a best-selling author and stand-up comic based in the UK. Dave opens up about his eating disorder and his journey to recovery. He talks about how anorexia affected his sex drive, emotions, and relationships. He shares his struggle with suicide ideation, depression, and his moment of hitting rock bottom. He discusses gender norms and communication barriers. Dave talks about performing comedy and how it gave him a sense of community. He tells us about his favorite TV show and favorite film.

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Theme Song: Therapy Roulette:

Consent to Vent / Trauma disguised as comedy / Therapy Roulette: Consent to Vent / If you dont have problems, then youre likely repressing sh*t and you should find a therapist/ (Whos not me)

Michele Baci:

Hey, Rouletters. I'm back with another episode of your favorite podcast Therapy Roulette: consent to vent! My name is Michele Baci, and I miss doing stand up comedy. It's been a year. And I think I had a big show in February of last year. So I remember going into the quarantine coming down from a high like I had performed at the Comedy Store. And I felt really good about it. And just performing it all at the Comedy Store had been a big goal for me, and I had just gotten my foot in the door there. And then the world went on lockdown. And I have kind of replaced stand up with podcasting. Because podcasting is not totally different because I am, I am just spilling my thoughts into a microphone. But it is ever so slightly different because I'm just talking to me. And you're listening, but I don't know who you are. So you're a ghost listener. I miss like the challenge and the hardship that comes with doing stand up like the really grungy grime Enos to it, and it's like, working out at the gym. But you really don't know what results you're getting. Until someone laughs And as you're practicing, or working out new material, you really don't get laughs So it's like a thankless exercise. And I kind of miss that challenging, masochistic thing I was doing to myself a year ago, I miss it. In today's episode, I talked to another stand up so it got me thinking about it. Because I know I've been sad. And I'm feeling more useless in quarantine without having stand up. Because it's really where I was directing my career. I was like, oh, I'll, I'll get really good at stand up. And then you know, whatever comes after that comes after that. So I was focusing on stand up comedy a year ago. And since then, I've become focused on keeping my house in order. That's been really hard. I'm not doing well with that. I've been focused on growing my relationship with my boyfriend and we are getting where I think we're at full growth right now, like the relationship is pretty strong. Just because I spent all my time with him. So it's hard not to focus on that. And I've gotten a decent job to fell by my Monday through Friday with so the job is good. But it's not like the dream. The dream is something creative, something related to writing, or comedy or entertainment. So the dream has been put on pause. And I'm a podcaster, which is cool. I've always wanted to do a podcast. So this is a different dream. And I think learning to adapt and change with what the environments demanding of you is good. I think I've tapped into my resiliency. And I'm glad it's carried me this far. And I don't know what do you guys think of Therapy Roulette, send me an email, let me know your thoughts on the podcast, actually write a review, and I will read them through the review. So I created a new link, where you can leave me a review. It's called rate this podcast dot com slash therapy. And that's my own link for Therapy Roulette. Again, it's rate this podcast.com slash therapy. If you leave the review there, it'll go to a couple different platforms. So it won't just land on Apple podcasts, it'll go to a couple other podcast platforms, which will be really good because apparently, not everyone has an iPhone. So this will help people who have different ways of listening to podcasts, hear about Therapy Roulette, get the word out that mental health is something we should be talking about laughing about, you know, it shouldn't be such a dark cloud that we can't access. So it'll help us D stigmatize trauma, mental health, and all that bad shit that's happened to you. It'll help you talk about it. So leave your review. If you want to do it the old school way. Definitely. You can do that too. on Apple podcasts or wherever you're listening to this. I appreciate it. If you want to lend me five stars and say something super nice. The more so the better. Maybe I'll even read your review on air. Try to make it funny. Why don't you on today This episode, I talked to a stand up comic Dave. And we talk about an eating disorder that he struggled with. So throwing that out there in case that's triggering to you, but he's really done a lot of work on himself to overcome that. And it was fascinating to hear his story. He also has a TEDx talk, which I'll link to in the show notes. I watched it, it was very powerful. He talks about different stuff in the TEDx talk than we did in the conversations you if you want to hear more of Dave, check out his talk, and some shameless self promotion for Therapy Roulette. Before I dive into the interview, check out my YouTube channel. I'm posting more YouTube videos. It's a lot of the video interview right now. Usually, I get that up by Monday. So if you want to watch Dave's interview, in video, check it out Monday on the YouTube channel. It's Therapy Roulette. Subscribe on YouTube, subscribe to the podcast. Follow me everywhere I want to be followed. All my info again is down in the show notes. I'd like to welcome to the podcast stand up comic performer author Dave Chawner.

Theme Song:

guest interview / a friend for you / strangers whose

Michele Baci:

welcome back to an ther episode of Therapy Roule

te:

consent to vent! my name is Michele Baci, it is raining ou issues are relatable / guest interview / They're the voice side in Los Angeles, if you ca hear that on the microphone. I' that's new / this person has problems and they don't mind discussing it, but they still need a therapist / (Whos not here with my guest today Da e shorter. He is a stand up co me) ic, a presenter performer and an author. Welcome, Dave. How ar you doing in London? Are you in London?

Dave Chawner:

Very good. And it won't be any surprise to you that it is raining cats and dogs here as well. I think it's more, it's more no worry that it's raining where you are today is where we're riding it.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, I jumped out of my chair when the thunder went off. I'm not used to it.

Dave Chawner:

Do you like thunder? Do you get excited?

Michele Baci:

I find it poetic and like beautiful um but in Los Angeles, it's scary cuz it's so abnormal

Dave Chawner:

Wow. That's really. It's terrible when I was a kid I remember we used to hop in the car and we used to drive round trying to chase. I mean, getting in a metal box and trying to chase

Michele Baci:

Well, at least you're comfortable in the rain. I guess one of us is comfortable right now.

Dave Chawner:

Completely. I mean, this is why I don't I don't understand why people have moved to the UK. I don't what have we got to offer? I mean, got worse weather. We've got I mean our biggest exports sarcasm and I don't really know why anyone would would move it. But that

Michele Baci:

sarcasm you have soccer and culture. You know, there's a theater district.

Dave Chawner:

That was before COVID. And now it's just loads of empty halls and I can't stand football or star soccer. I can't.

Michele Baci:

I forgot football. Yeah, I lived in Norwich for three months. And it was it was like doom and gloom every day. But I felt smarter hanging out with British people.

Dave Chawner:

Besides that tree you feel more intellectual when you?

Michele Baci:

Yeah, I think it's like the dialect and also like, Oh, I'm somewhere different and America gets a rap for being pretty stupid. So I feel like any other country is a huge step up. That's just my own personal belief.

Dave Chawner:

I went to Italy like before the pandemic last year and it does like I just think Italians can make anything sound amazing. They could they could be calling you the worst thing they could be saying death your grandmother but just a great carry on me keep it covered. It's lovely.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, rolls off the tongue language and sound really can get away with a lot.

Dave Chawner:

Yes, hugely. Again. I think one of the French get away with so much because they've got such a beautiful sound in language is great love, friend, love or friendship.

Michele Baci:

If you want to commit a crime, learn one of the romance languages and you're fine. Go with that.

Dave Chawner:

Where's my girlfriend's know that Irish and nowadays? I mean,

Michele Baci:

guys like that's, that's very guilty.

Dave Chawner:

It is. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You're a bad mom.

Michele Baci:

It's just a little too harsh where you're like, Huh, I'm skeptical and suspicious.

Unknown:

apps is

Michele Baci:

tough. The Irish are tough. Very tough.

Dave Chawner:

I mean, she terrifies me we need to get a five now. I haven't understood a word she said. So that's the and that's a problem. We went to this is honestly true in lockdown. We went to the chemist to pick up a prescription and we go there quite a lot. We know the chemist and we went in there So that leg is eyelashes like Sorry, madam. I'm really sorry. It's your date of birth that nearly went 31st to me, idiot. And the woman instantly like changes. I beg your pardon 31st me, idiot. And the woman was like what an owner like rolled her eyes because the accent again, but I didn't realize what was going on the cameras did for a nerd said 31st of May You idiot, because ataa an Irish idiot. It's just like Madden, there is no need to be like, this is amazing. This is pretty good. So yeah, that's there's the one upside of the accent.

Michele Baci:

That's like a superpower you can insult people like without meaning to or maybe you mean to insult them and they actually hear a VA like, that's pretty cool.

Dave Chawner:

That's great. It's a superpower that record your voice honed long ago.

Michele Baci:

Yes. I like that. But I'm glad you're of UK descent and I can understand you pretty well. So thank you for your understandable accent.

Dave Chawner:

Um,

Michele Baci:

let's talk about therapy. Are you in therapy? If you are, how's it going?

Dave Chawner:

No, anymore was for two and a half years best experience.

Unknown:

What? Okay,

Dave Chawner:

I was gonna say best experience of my life. But that, I mean, that really shames a lot of things that should be a lot further, you know, the birth of my niece, me and my girlfriend know, sitting in a room for an hour a week. So yeah,

Michele Baci:

baby, it likes flushes out compliments the best experience of your life.

Dave Chawner:

I love that they go. That's why get out of jail free cards is everything. But yes, I was for two and a half years tried loads of different things. That's great.

Michele Baci:

Okay, cool. And are you recently out of therapy? Did you like cut it off? Because you felt good without it? How did you end it? Well, obviously, being in the UK, so

Dave Chawner:

we've got the NHS, and that's a thing. And it's not going very well. And, you know, we're kind of currently doing the essential national sort of whip round, like if you've got a fiver check in for the doctors. So it's not going brilliantly. But I was very lucky in the NHS for two and a half years. And it got to a point where like, my therapist was like, Dave, come on, mate. Like, I think we've sort of we've run, we've run out,

Michele Baci:

your therapist kicks you out.

Dave Chawner:

By breaking up, it really was. So it's kind of very odd experience. And that was probably about four years ago. Now. I mean, this is something that I don't think a lot of people talk about terrifying experience finishing therapy. It's like,

Unknown:

yeah,

Michele Baci:

I recently finished couples therapy with my boyfriend. And our therapist basically ended things during the sessions. He was like, this will be your last session, you know, you can call me for a one, one session touch up in the future, but no more of this regular stuff. And I was like, oh, okay, how things were done. Um, my, my boyfriend was like, Yeah, I think we're done with this. I think we've learned what we need to learn. And I was like, No, I feel abandoned. I was not ready for this sudden, like, ends.

Dave Chawner:

So it's such an odd thing, because I think you do build up that relationship so much. And I used to remember regularly think of what I'm going to talk about this in therapy.

Michele Baci:

It kind of gives you that future schedule. You're like I could dissect this later. I'll do this Wednesday, you know? Well,

Dave Chawner:

absolutely. And this is why at the moment, because of the way that I've always sort of dealt with things is by sort of using sensitively using comedy in order to talk about, you know, tricky topics, such as mental health, but that's why now I've kind of created a six week comedy course aimed at using comedy in order to build people's confidence, their communication, their connection with other people earn all those skills that you build in therapy to sort of do it in an arts based therapeutic way. And it's been weird sort of seeing that the other side of it and being like, oh, now I'm on the other side of the table. Very odd.

Michele Baci:

Yeah. For you have to like, organize it all and make sense of it a little bit more.

Dave Chawner:

It makes me realize that a lot of the time I reckon, therapists you know, you know that thing about swans, they're literally graceful, but their feet are flapping. And I bet good 90% of the time, therapists are thinking, Oh, God, I was just thinking about what I need to order from Amazon. I haven't been at all This is Karen.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, I always wonder that too, because I think like even doing this podcast, I think like I'm pretending to be a therapist of a pseudo therapist. And then if I was a real therapist, you know, it really tried to help people in crisis. That's a lot of pressure to put on yourself and then you've to pay attention that whole session like you can't, you can't write down something on your shopping list. You're in it.

Dave Chawner:

What what happens if you get something like I don't know if you ever get like an eyelid twit. Or if he really, he bombed like, can you you can't like someone's like halfway through saying, you know, I can't see any point in going on you can't think I'm really nice crush my bomb right now it's so weird. Yeah, I

Michele Baci:

guess you can but it might affect your Yelp review my reflect poorly?

Unknown:

Yeah, that's a very good point.

Michele Baci:

Although in the virtual age, maybe it's easier for therapists to like chill out a little bit if they're doing zoom sessions or virtual sessions. Well,

Dave Chawner:

I had a very interesting chat with the other day she says she prefers zoom sessions. I said, that's really odd, because a lot of people I know don't. And she said, I find it mental that people would prefer in person sessions. So when she said, the reason that she realized over time was, she can go plunk herself in a little room. She can have a little zoom session, she can cry, she can scream, she can say whatever she wants, knowing that when she finished she just told her opens the door makes a cup of tea with it. She was like, if I asked to go to like hospital or office or something I have to get back on the train after got on the tube after and I hadn't thought of that of like composing yourself afterwards. Yeah, like

Michele Baci:

the whole commute aspects like driving to the place or commuting to the place as a whole production. That's,

Dave Chawner:

I mean, that's the thing that I hadn't really even considered. Oh, yeah, good point.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, I prefer the zoom sessions myself. It just you know, one step easier. Hmm.

Dave Chawner:

Yeah, I don't see you can do anyway. I'm not even wearing any crowns. Great.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, I can't tell.

Unknown:

That's perfect.

Michele Baci:

How was your childhood?

Dave Chawner:

Brilliant, loved it. That was one of the problems of actually my sort of mental illness. I lived in an episode of community essentially, I but I didn't realize this until later. The school I went to was the most underfunded school in Staffordshire. But the teaching was just amazing. They're all like newly qualified teachers who were working in this little village. And the kids which are the kids my year were brilliant. bring this back. I was head boy or senior bermad as they like to call me. And because we were the most underfunded school in Staffordshire, why I sort of did a little deal with the head of fit form. And we had our own little set form room and it's about 300 dentists asked Miss Gibbs. We all know budgets are really tight. Sit for room is terrible. So how about this? over the six weeks summer holidays? Why don't you give me the keys to sit for me. We will come in, we'll paint the sick form room. We'll do it up with decorate it we'll do a whip round we'll buy sofas, whatever it was. All right. As long as I have to do booger all that's fine. So we put in so first we had our hi fi system, it was indoor cricket. It was it was just amazing. Actually, one of the reasons is one of the many reasons so sparkly in disorder, which I loved. I loved school, and I started getting this girlfriend and everything was perfect. But when I was moving away to university, my happiness had a sell by date, I had a very definite date of like, well actually, I'm going to leave my family my friends were a girlfriend at that time. And that was like, Oh my god, just I just want to hold everything as it was because it was this cast of characters that were just brilliant.

Michele Baci:

So I feel like it's called something different in the UK. But this is like high school you're talking about right before you go off to university.

Dave Chawner:

Yes, I realized that it should have. So I was like 1617 the time now.

Michele Baci:

And then you had sounds like a popular school profile. Like you had the girlfriend, you were in a play. You could tell your teacher what to do. You were like living the life in high school.

Dave Chawner:

Oh, it's great. I mean, it's just really I mean, I honestly I attest this that I honestly don't think that was popular and unpopular. I'm still you know, I'm say two now and I still meet up with loads of people from school. And they were really, I mean, again, some of the people that I were friends with, I mean just such an incredible year like one of my friends now is the lead producer of national news age 32, which is like never happened before. One of my mates is a surgeon who subsequently I later lived with in London and like in an intercalated they call over so basically go to a university as a condom for one year, genuinely within a year Imperial University found a groundbreaking thing I really know about kidney cancer. Wow, he worked with one of the sort of top doctors in the UK to sort of change the way that we see oncology. I was just like, what, and then I was saved doing eyes, these challenging jokes and eating beans in his pants.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, but you're making people laugh, and you're You know, talking about a big mental health issue, you're talking about eating disorders, you're spreading awareness and you're making it funny, which is super challenging. So tell us, so you were saying like your childhood affected your eating disorder? How did that link together? You think?

Dave Chawner:

I think there's a number of different things. I think that Yeah, I loved school. And that was brilliant. And I think the eating disorder insidiously kind of crept in, like, like a little mouse that was annoyed. And it sort of crept in because I, you know, it started off as a way myself once a day. And then I say, like in that will be in the morning. And now where myself in the evening sandwich or weight fluctuated, I think, because I lived in this little village, you know, as any offer Marlo, and actually, it was more exercise. So nepo lunch to weigh myself. And then actually, I started creeping off school to where myself mid afternoon to inspire me to eat less, and I was weighing myself, you know, sort of five, six times a day, but because it develops rather than began, it kind of became normal, and it became normal to have X amount of calories or do X amount of exercise each day. And I enjoyed it. This is one of the horrible truth. I'm not glorifying, condoning, or certainly not promoting eating disorders. But you know what overtime, it was a little when it didn't matter if Durham University didn't accept me or didn't get an A, on that paper. As long as I got down to x weight or even x calories, it felt like a little shortcut. Feeling good.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, like it was the thing you could control you can obsess over and, you know, you can do that, if nothing else.

Dave Chawner:

See, that is the thing that's the word always comes up is control. And for a long time, I was always like, no, it's not, you know, it's not control. So I'll be in it. But I think you're absolutely right, that in a weird way, it was about control. But it wasn't about control of like, right, just calories. I think it's because in this chaotic Maya that we call the planet there is so very few things that you can measure independence, whereas the eating disorder depended in numbers, Calories, Weights, axes are that those are numbers. Those are quantifiable things. And when you don't feel good enough, you know, Twitter numbers, subscribers, followers, they all go up and down. And they're very sort of weird way of measuring yourself where weight was something that was always there.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, like it made sense on paper. Yeah. And you so didn't really like peak when you got cast in this play and school?

Dave Chawner:

Kind of weird because it kind of like peaks and troughs. And then the honest answer, and this is where it kind of gets a bit. So weird. I didn't actually realize that I've got name disorder for quite a long time when I was sort of 1718 people kept on telling me that I was anorexic. And I was like, well, that's their stuff. If they're going to be melodramatic. I was I I remember very, like your mom, my mom crying and screaming up at me and go like you're anorexic. And I was like, Whoa, this is more about you than it does about me. I mean, you know, come Oh, wow,

Michele Baci:

you're such big denial.

Dave Chawner:

Yeah, it was. Yeah. Well, I didn't I honestly didn't realize because I think all of those stories and stuff about anorexia were people that ate or there were people that weighed less than a bag of crisps and other Thor acts like a toast rack, whereas I was just bumbling along. And I enjoyed it. selfishly, I did in dress. And actually the first time I realized and associate that did have an eating disorder was when I was about 20. And I was doing this. They call them TEFL, teaching English as a foreign language. They have loads of boarding schools around the UK, and kids from all over the world, a lot of European countries come here to improve their English. And this was this place called Somerset in England, which is like so remote the nearest shot was three and a half miles away. And all the food was like pizza past the church and I just couldn't believe how much I started on threading and I started setting my alarm in the middle of the night to do exercises. I started skipping meals, but then I would sort of binge in front of people because it was a communal dining hall as is and then I was like coffee loading shrine avoid food and as a binge pad tired or one of the teachers who said look, I've I believe me her and I've been in therapy for three times I find this a really tough environment. Have you ever thought you might be anorexic? And that was the first time somebody asked me rather than challenge me.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, and also identifying their own problem upfront saying, hey, I've been in, you know, therapy, rehab, whatever for Bolivia. I can recognize this. I think you have a problem or like maybe you have a problem. What do you think?

Dave Chawner:

Yeah, completely. I think that sort of lived experience angles really important because it's the you know, you know, judging or you know, sort of holding back I'm not poking fun, I get it for certain direction that, you know, you might be struggling. I think that was really interesting, but I never did anything about it because I never felt anorexic enough. And there's certain things about disorders that we know that like 80% of people that have, for example, believe me, or a mid range, BMI, and people get on, you know, sort of, I'd make a stupid joke in the show of like, you know, people kept on saying to me, when I started doing the show, which was a caused a huge relapse, and why I ended up in hospital was because people get some say, You don't look anorexic, and the correct response, something like that, as well. You don't look like a friggin idiot. But we were both surprised. The mental Oh, yeah, it's not an aesthetic.

Michele Baci:

It's also not something you wear on your body necessarily. Like it's more like internal. And what are your habits? Are you obsessed with like exercise, calorie counting? Those are the science of it

Dave Chawner:

completely. And it manifests in different people in different ways. And it's absolutely not a diet gone wrong. I can see why people would think that but I think the whole kind of way that we see. Weight is interesting, because people kept on saying to me when I lost weight people at all, you look good, well done. All right. And that was kind of like if losing weights good. And putting on weight must be bad. I don't want to be bad. Of course, I'm not going to put on weight.

Michele Baci:

Mm hmm. And then you probably like, I know, the time I was fitness in my life, I got the most attention the most compliments. And I was like, Well, yeah, like I was I don't I was never anorexic. Like I think I wanted to be, but I would you know, obsess over food and exercise. And whenever I got a compliment, like replenish me, I say Awesome. Thanks, my neck looks then like, I must be doing it. Right.

Dave Chawner:

And this is the thing I think you've absolutely hit the nail on the head of like, you know, I aspire to be anorexic. I think all anorexics feel like that, because bottom line, you can't you can't go weeks on end without food ban. Now, one of the myths about our exes was that, you know, you you go for days, weeks on end without food. I'll put it completely out there. I never went a single day without food. I had very little food. And I'm not going to you know, sort of divulge the calorie count. But it's still something I'm hugely embarrassed about that I never went a full day without food. But you know what, for people that live with restrictive eating disorders, that that isn't normally and not feeling good enough, not feeling anorexic enough is a very, very common thing.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, and also, when you see these people you aspire to be these, like railfan people. And then you put them on a pedestal and they also look so weak. Like I know the people I will look up to like, oh, they're so skinny. I wish I could be like her. They look like they can barely breathe or move because they look so thin and so skeleton like and you know, they're just surviving out like barely anything most likely.

Dave Chawner:

And also the elephant in the room is the Oh sexuality. bit and you know, being sexy, feeling sexy. And the irony is, you know, sort of like people who've got problems with their body issues. Probably, you know, you could probably look a million dollars a year not gonna feel him B's sexy time ain't gonna happen. So I, yeah,

Michele Baci:

I do, you're gonna fail, you're gonna fail before you have sex.

Dave Chawner:

A really odd dichotomy there of you know, sort of, you know, there's people think that you want to do to look sexy gradually, really not because sex is probably the last Lego divides.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, all you're thinking about is food and exercise. Like if you have that, that certain brand of eating disorder where you're like, once I eat, I have to plan my exercise routine. And then you know, after that, like, I have to eat but not not too much. And you're, you're constantly wrapped up in that thought cycle. You can't think of anything else. And that's one of the things that made recovery for me. So odd was again, not promoting easels in any way shape. One of the things that I loved about being anorexic was he starved out emotionally starved out things I didn't want to confront IE, my sex drive.

Dave Chawner:

Oh god and having no sex drive is brilliant. I mean, you get so much more admin done, especially, you know, being a bloke that self employed so he spends most of his on his own with a laptop and Wi Fi I mean, Christ when I had no sex drive, oh, my productivity through the roof. And I do miss that. And then when going back, you're answering

Michele Baci:

all those emails and all right back to everyone.

Dave Chawner:

I need to I looked at advertising in a different way. Like, you know, different brands over here that you know, I mean, the weirdest one is chocolate adverts always have sexy women in them. And you just like look at them. You never had a dairy milk in your life what you want

Michele Baci:

and you're lying to me. It's just it's so

Dave Chawner:

and I hate it. I absolutely bored getting my sex drive back. It was terrifying.

Michele Baci:

Why do you think you enjoyed it so much like this, this chase for perfection?

Dave Chawner:

It's a good question. I I think I think it was, are we talking in terms of the eating disorder or the sex drive?

Michele Baci:

Um, the eating disorder like when you when you got all this compliments these, this attention that was positive, like, Why did you keep seeking that out?

Dave Chawner:

I think I think I did in fairness, I didn't really seek out the like the physical complements. Ironically, I think one of the reasons is I actually want him to blend in rather than stand out. And I say that because I remember, I know, I've painted this sort of milk and honey experience of school, but we weren't, you know, not everyone, there were 300 kids in my ear, not all of them are angels. And I remember when we did what we call PA, or you guys might call Jim, like, when you go outside and just embarrass, yeah,

Michele Baci:

it's the old school term, we call it Jim, I guess.

Dave Chawner:

I just remember when we get in change, one of the kids get in, you know, people used to say wail time and people would slap his stomach. And I remember that sent a very sharp message to me as sort of developing teenagers, like, if you are fat, you will get rid of cured and at that time, I was very, very fat. And I was like, I want to blend in. I want to be part of the NGO. I want to be, you know, part of the wallpaper, I don't want that sort of negative attention. So for me, actually, the disorder was more about fitting in and trying to fit in with people, whereas I felt like a big, fat sore thumb.

Michele Baci:

Do you think you were just like fat by society standards? Or were you fat? Like, what would what a doctor say you were overweight? Oh, God.

Dave Chawner:

Yes. I mean, unfortunately, and I the data, they'll never say this. But my mom and dad had a very weird relationship with food. And they. Yeah,

Michele Baci:

it has to start somewhere. Right? Well, I

Dave Chawner:

mean, I didn't realize until you know, you get a fresh set of eyes on this. But you know, bringing my girlfriend back into cheese, the chocolates around there's, there's chocolates, there's sweets, there's sugary bits is a single piece of fruit in sight. And food was my parents grew up, off the back of rationing off the back of World War Two. So food equals love equals celebration. And then as society changed, food became much, much, much, much, much cheaper. So those things that mom and dad, when they grew up with me of chocolate, have expensive exotic things. Those will be like, Oh my God, we only had this at Christmas, whereas they could have been, you know, seven days a week, 52 weeks? a year. So it became a sort of thing that food was always around and always pushed in. Yeah, I mean, yeah, people used to joke I mean, I still meet over the one of my mates, ironically, is a doctor now but always used to draw me as a picture of a bloke with a little basketball body. That's the sort of level that was okay, no. Hmm.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, I think food is like a symbol of affluence, or maybe like generosity, like you're welcoming people into your home, say a long time. So it has all these associations, and then it could end up harming you, if you see it the wrong way.

Dave Chawner:

Oh, absolutely. And if that is the case, if you know sort of food is used to sort of like, you know, keep people then Jesus, my mom was preparing for a nuclear winter. I mean, crap, she

Unknown:

did not want you to leave.

Dave Chawner:

If the a bomb goes off, Jesus, you could live there for years. I mean, you go into that pantry, and it was like Costco.

Michele Baci:

Were you like, did you have siblings? Or was it just you at home?

Dave Chawner:

So I had to I have an older sisters that four years older than me, and I suppose I don't want to like really talk too much. Because I suppose that sort of, yeah, I

Michele Baci:

was just wondering, like, Is your mom preparing for other kids? Or is it just you?

Dave Chawner:

I mean, it was like the, you know, don't make a joke of it. But it was like the feeding of the 5000s. You know, you'd come out with just the, the amount and the amount of butter. And yeah, I mean, now that I come out and like try to have a healthier relationship with food and equally, not not blaming or shaming anyone, but you do kind of, you know, I don't blame my parents in any way, shape or form for my eating disorder. Nobody chooses to have a mental illness, but you do have a responsibility to get better. And I share that responsibility for a long, long time. And now you know, because of all the stuff that I've had and I'm really lucky to have a drone to pay that forward in order to help people find those communication tools in order to explain what's going on in your brain box.

Michele Baci:

And your sounds like your mom was like really trying to help you get better because she calls you out for being anorexic and wanted you to get help. So she she was clearly like, trying to help

Dave Chawner:

you at some point. Definitely. And I also think there's a developmental issue here. You know, mom was, yeah, she was the cook, and she always feed and stuff. And also, I sort of perhaps felt, perhaps, rightly or wrongly, that perhaps at certain points, a little bit too much of a hand on the old tiller of my life, and I wanted to take control. And actually, by restricting the input that she gave, she was the feeder, and I was the fidi by actually cutting off that that was taking control so that on an insidious level is me sort of standing on my own firm fee.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, that's some psychology coming at you.

Dave Chawner:

This is a this is what I've been told by, again. Just a professional.

Michele Baci:

Yeah. Its tracks. I think it tracks. Do you want to talk about your I don't know if it would be a rock bottom, but like the time you went to the hospital, when you like, had too much coffee?

Dave Chawner:

Oh, right. Well, the coffee thing was still when I was sort of developing, I suppose my, my actual rock bottom. And here's the thing and it funny, was actually, when I started talking about I are very lucky that I sort of started doing this show about it, which is brilliant, it's nice. And I went up to the Edinburgh Fringe and got very nice reviews. And then I was very lucky. And I've got a ward at the Houses of Parliament, which was brilliant and amazing. And it kind of then went on tour. But what was the weird thing was after the tour shows, people will come up to me, and they will tell me about people that were ill than I was or thinner than I was or do more exercise than I was, and I kind of became feeling like a fraud of like, I'm not anorexic enough. Here I am saying I had anorexia, I'd never got treatment for rare and I essentially created a rods from my own back. So I became very open in my relapse in and it was very clear as well, at the time that it was a suicide attempt. So that, you know, I'd started writing the letters for after I was gone. And I'd stayed sort of writing while I'm my you know, my bank details and stuff so that when I died, people can find them, because I knew that anorexia was, has the highest mortality rate of any mental illness. So I'd like to sort of speed that up. But the one thing I didn't see come in, was the depression. And it was that that I went to the doctor's for that I was like, Look, I constantly feel rubbish. I'm self medicating with far too much drink, if you get what I mean, I've started taking other illicit substances. And then I got referred at the chain. And without monitor login, the only reason that I didn't follow through with the plan was a really annoyed and frustrated nurse got the end of a tether with me and bless her, she went look, bottom line, you wouldn't expect your laptop to work if you don't charge it. You can't expect your brain to release these feel good chemicals if you don't feed it. That's why you're depressed. And I was like, we're into an idiot. That was like, amazing.

Michele Baci:

That's the analogy that that resonated with you.

Dave Chawner:

Well, up until that point, you know, I was Boogaloo at that point, you know, I was I couldn't concentrate, I'd got no memory. I was very irritable all of the time. And on a baseline of like, I'm like a bear with a sore ass most of the time. It was terrible. And I think actually, a real world intervention was exactly what I needed someone to be like, right? Cut the crap bottom line. It's gonna happen, it's gonna get worse, you've got a choice, you could die from this. You're all you're gonna be all alone. You pushing people away, or you do the difficult thing and face up to

Michele Baci:

Yeah, I've heard that's really hard. The recovering of the eating disorder, like learning like you actually have to start putting food into your body. Otherwise, you know, the end is near.

Dave Chawner:

It's so it's difficult in so many ways. Firstly, the weight gain, never never tell anyone that you got put on weight. Jesus, no one likes that person. Oh, dear. It's hard. You know? Because again, we live in a cultural society where we're diversified to be you know, like losing weight is is good and putting on weight, you know, sort of ours.

Michele Baci:

So yeah, that we have we've divided into good and bad Computer Society.

Dave Chawner:

And it's odd that like, I didn't know everything from like, I didn't really I couldn't really work out when I was actually full or when I was really hungry because I was so out of tune with my body trying to get rid of all of those sort of safe foods and then things like feeling warm again was so weird because like my dad was always so cold and I was so odd and it was quite triggering as well close associates sweating, wood, being fat. So it's difficult. I think one of the hardest things about recovery was everyone talks about recovery is taking the anorexia away. No one talks about recovery of giving anything back. And so I was on a race to the bottom as I saw it, and it's only when I started to sort of reframe that for myself and say, you know, what, instead of seeing this as like, a losing battle, so this is gaining that attention span, gaining that sense of humor, gaining that reclaiming that sexuality. And that could be fun. And I just marked about three, I never had a gap year, but I just dicked about all that year, and it was brilliant.

Michele Baci:

So you were living in brain fog, you were like sustaining on very little calories. And then some pissed off nurse was like, Listen, you have to charge your battery. Otherwise, you know, you're gonna stay depressed. And you were like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Absolutely. Wow. And was. So just to explain the coffee thing that was when you were drinking coffee in replacement of food. And that lowered your heart rate. Is that right?

Dave Chawner:

Yeah. So I don't want to tap share, and you shouldn't do this. And I'll explain why bide style. One of the unhealthy.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, that's a tip share, but more to like, warn people don't do this.

Dave Chawner:

Yes. Because one of the many things you can do, you start you start doing weird shit. And I started replacing food for coffee, because coffee gives you energy, but it doesn't give you the calories of food if you drink, you know, sort of black like oil, coffee. And the problem is what I didn't realize is that coffee can in some people reduce your posts and when you don't eat because you've got none of that fuel in your body that reduces your posts to mine got down to about 40 it was 46 beats a minute. And I started getting heart palpitations, which is basically where your heart skips a beat. And then the next one's bigger. And this just casts consistently happening and the silly story that I tell in the show, which is true, but I you know, I ended up in a&e over this I ended up talking to this bill though, like basically sawn off half his leg, and we got chatting and after a while he said, you know, anyway, you know why I'm here? Why are you here? And there's nothing more embarrassing than looking at bloke who's bleeding out of his lower body and go Why am I out too much coffee may look pretty trivial and like a bit of a dig. But it is true that I hear

Michele Baci:

about in the hospital like swapping your origin story. Some guy lost his leg and you're like, I had too much caffeine.

Dave Chawner:

Just like step away from the nest calf. But it's it is an odd thing. Again, the all of the signs and symptoms that you can easily mess of Yeah, like loads of coffee, things I always point out, feeling too cold, chewing, anxiety, very rigid thinking of things being great or bad mood swings, changes behavior, feeling and moving slower the user all of these little things can go so overlooked. But really, again, smoking really common one, if you ever go to any rexy conference, the fat breaks go on for God knows our long.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, I mean, I've seen a lot of this like either in my own life or like, you know, witnessing other people and it does resonate. What was your step to get better when was like, Where Where was there a moment where you were like I'm gonna start getting better by doing this.

Dave Chawner:

Yeah, that's a really interesting question because I because I know how resources are so stretched over here and how lucky and truly gifted I was to be able to not gifted truly lucky, fortunate to get on to treatment. I was like, I either don't do this or I do this proper and I did it properly. And I think I thought I still remember my my therapist to be on one says I still remember one Thursday, March back in 20. Gods it's got to go 2015 1415 of like stepping outside and for the first time being like Jesus, I feel like the old Dave I feel like the pre anorexic school days. Dave there was actually more worried out about you know, going and cagin Johnno Parkinson, or you know, mucking about playing football and that I think was my first and it was a huge push to keep me going. I've been I feel silly. And I think we talked so much about mental illness that we actually really overlook mental health and good mental health and I think a huge motivator is to say, what's good mental health for you? And in that moment, if that will window day, the good mental health for me was feeling like a kid again, in a Brilliant, stupid, silly way.

Michele Baci:

Like you're able to think about other stuff besides food and exercise.

Dave Chawner:

Yeah, and, and like life was exciting rather than intimidating and things were funny, I got one of the brilliant guys at school and I just he was a walking talking real life. And his name was Don. And he we grew up when jackass was still around quite a lot. And Tom used to do ridiculous stuff. And it didn't matter to Tom, if it weren't right or wrong, it was a story. It was an adventure. And I was always really envious of that. I know, remember thinking as I just that therapy that yeah, I think Donna got it right all along nicely. It doesn't matter about your bank balance, or the numbers on your scale, it is an adventure to actually genuinely, truly feel that and equally as well to give lip service to the fact that like, I'm not saying that I've been, you know, shitting happiness ever since. And that, you know, every day

Michele Baci:

I heard that phrase before. It's Yeah,

Dave Chawner:

it's not like I'm walking on sunshine every single day, obviously. There's tough days and stuff. But I think it's really important to celebrate those little wins wherever they come.

Michele Baci:

So it sounds like therapy was a big asset. And in your recovery

Dave Chawner:

therapy was the groundwork the bedrock The most important thing. And it was, it was useful for a number of different reasons. One is to have a professional that could guide that conversation into, right. Okay, now you just list in foods, this an app for like, let's just steer this back to something a bit more constructed. So to have someone to stare that tab someone to give their insight as well was really, really useful. And also, I'm just gonna say it won't make me popular and people don't like it. Have someone to believe me. To have someone. Yeah. Hey, you. You know what I do think you have anorexia. I don't see you making this up.

Michele Baci:

And someone on your side to someone who's not trying to blame you for anything?

Dave Chawner:

Yes, I think that was, that was great and invaluable and brilliant. And I was just so lucky. The therapist that I got was a right old laugh, and she was brilliant. And we add some genuinely, I had so much great time I used to I look forward to, cuz I thought it was like in the States when they're in the UK. So it's therapy. Whenever I say I love it, people like he will write me. It's just it's seen as something that you know, you you're either meant to dread, or you're meant to be done and out. But I was like, No, I'm like a dog with two decks here. This is brilliant.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, that's so funny. I think it really is heavily stigmatized in America. It's only because I live in Los Angeles. Now I feel like it's so prevalent in Los Angeles, because we're all woowoo. And like, celebrity culture, it's a different world here. But like I came from New York, and even in New York, it felt much more difficult to talk about.

Dave Chawner:

So that's, that is interesting. And this is what gets me is, especially in our school system that we have, we have physical education, as mentioned earlier on mental education. And actually, I think that kind of is making a lot of problems further down the tracks of, you know, the thing that everyone always says about men's health is, you know, just talk to someone and that's, you know, that's lovely. And that's all well and good. But what happens if you die of the word? Yeah, being a bloke, you know, we don't have as much vocational, you know, their emotional vocabulary because you know what, like, there are still those hangovers of gender norms that women are the carers men are the fixes. So trying to explain what's going on in my mindset, trying to explain a color to someone who's blind, and that actually compounded with the fact that one of the first diagnostic criteria for pretty much any mental illness is an inability to communicate because the cerebral cortex stops firing all of the different. I don't know what they are. To be honest, I started as soon as I've got a clearer

Michele Baci:

transmitters or something like that.

Dave Chawner:

So my lie that the cerebral cortex goes on all the day and goes to Western super mare as a lovely time. So actually, it's really, really difficult to talk about this stuff. And I think if people started seeing therapy as like a gym for the mind, like the ancient Greeks did the body in the mind, and you know, you don't have to be unfit to go to the gym. You don't have to be unwell to look after your mental health.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, I wish they did teach it more in school because when you I don't know how your health education was in school, but for us, it was like, one chapter is about physical mental, emotional health and like, you know, that mental parts 1/3 of the chapter. It's very fractioned Until, like, you know, we're gonna talk about this briefly, but it's not important

Dave Chawner:

that we didn't even have that. And I still remember growing up in the 90s. And it was very commonplace for, you know, as soon as I was, you know, a murder in this sort of, you know, within 100 miles for hours, because he's crazy and the sun used to print headlines, and like when Frank Bruno came out and said, I've got a mental illness, the front page of the film was bonkers, Bruno, and all bonkers, Bruno, just so mad, it's gonna

Michele Baci:

sell some papers. It's just

Dave Chawner:

and some of the things that you use, you see where it was kind of like really like, Oh, God. But I think, again, I couldn't. We've never been better at mental health in the history of the world. How exciting is that? And despite all of the despair, and the down ness and the worry in the work, I think the fact that we never been better at mental health is such an incredible thing. And I'm not saying the race is one i'm not saying right, let's give up. It's all equal. Because I know that's not the case. But I just think it's also, you know, credit where credit's due and we are getting better.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, we're, I think vastly improving from like, what I felt as a kid or a teenager, what I felt five years ago, feels a lot easier now. So we are on some trajectory upward. And then talking about it more will help, you know, telling people therapy helps talk to someone and not telling people they're crazy is a good way forward.

Dave Chawner:

What is this stand on the shoulders of giants thing? of like, you know, you hear someone talking about something local will like that better like that be? That's a good idea. That's a good idea. And then you start saying that, so what else is there? Well, a lot of that a lot of that ban, it just kind of, you know, boats rise with the tide. And I kind of feel that everyone's sort of doing that with mental health that actually, you know, sort of by working collaboratively rather than competitively. Hopefully, it helps other people and again, changes that tone. And I think that's one of the biggest problems we've got with mental health at the moment is doing stuff in schools now. You know, I go into schools and so on. So you know, we're going to talk about mental health and people aren't Jesus, none of this sob story, you know, they're ready for, you know, doom and gloom, whereas Actually, that's only half of the story. So why are we only telling half the story? Yet, to

Michele Baci:

me, I always was drawn to psychology because it's so fascinating. Like, it seems like endless stuff. You could learn about the minds. But you have to put that in your head like, no, this is actually interesting. We can learn from this. It's not something to make bad or criticize.

Dave Chawner:

Oh, absolutely. But what we are on criticizing some of some psychologists and mental like

Michele Baci:

everyone's human.

Dave Chawner:

I mean, people talk about like, this is where it gets where you can't really talk about mental health without talking about the hierarchy of needs. And that was come up with Maslow and the bottom and then as you go up the pyramid, Maslow married his cousin. So let's, let's just back off taking too much advice of a man who's probably got seven fingers and toes, you know.

Michele Baci:

So we know how he sped up that route to self actualization by married his cousin, I'll have to look that up.

Dave Chawner:

This is unlike Well, yeah, and you talk about self actualization like a youngin idea, like Jung and Freud, were really we have friends and I mean, subsequently, there's a brilliant story that when they first met in Vienna, they chatted for 13 hours non stop. What a fucking nightmare. I can't I've never had a conversation that's gone on longer than an actual day like I caught. They must have been a no. And then had this massive, this huge catastrophic, falling out. I know, it's just like, it just mental but brilliant is and

Michele Baci:

that's funny. Well, we didn't have texty back then. So maybe they just had to get it out.

Unknown:

Yeah, no.

Michele Baci:

I'm what inspired you to like, present all this through stand up comedy Did you always want to perform?

Dave Chawner:

I think I've always loved comedy, and I started loving comedy when I went away to we call university so great. Yes, that's cool. It's college. I think college they go. There was this little comedy club. And I used to go every two weeks because that's what I was and I loved. And it was amazing. And I started bringing more and more people and I think I love so many things about it. One of it was the community aspect. I genuinely am quite an introvert. And people are that's because yeah, you're such a loud mouth. If I was being with other people, I would sit and listen. And I think it's so common for so many introverts that you know, you kind of have to say something, there's actually just going to, you know, go into a club or having a couple of pints sitting with your mates in the breaks, I was not growl I really like that. So there was that sort of bit. But also, I really liked how all of the comics were losers and freaks. And they set up for comedy. When was the last time you heard a comedian talking about having too much money, or being too successful, or having too many partners apart from Russell Brand, they're on any kind of do that. And I love that they took really dark things like loneliness and being too poor, or being a free cook, you know, commonly things like being Campbell, gay or trans. And celebrating and explained it. And so I started doing stand up when I was as I was sort of started, when I was about sort of 2021. And then at 24, I moved to London, and went full time and stand up. And it just naturally came to me to you know, sort of comedy was my way of sort of making sense of the world. Because the thing I love about humor is it can be your foil, you can say anything, no matter how dark, no matter how divisive, no matter how deep, as long as you can make someone laugh and and you can get away with blue murder. And I thought that was incredible. But it can also be used for good as well. And I think that's really important.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, I see similar things for me pursuing stand up, it's, it's a way for like my introvert to talk about myself. It's like, this is my time to do something, I don't want to listen all the time,

Dave Chawner:

completely. And actually, Freud did, you know, sort of, there's loads of different theories of human and Freud was one of the proponents of the what they call the incongruity theory, and he reckons that the only reason that we laugh is because in Congress now, so you put something in a different context or a different place, which is, you know, very sort of nice. It is not the only theory out there, you've got the like the release theory of humor, which is about shopping out in loads with the basically like, humor, laughing is just like bursting a balloon. Oh, thank God, we're talking about something else. Those are different. And I find that sort of element of it. Really interesting as well. But yeah, I completely agree that I think that comedy is a communal thing is beautiful. And also is one of those community things. I genuinely say that one of my favorite things that life, I know that I'm comfortable with someone when I'm in the car, and we stop chatting, and it ain't awkward. I love that. I love a non awkward set. And just Yeah, the window. And to me, that's what, that's what being in a comedy club is surrounded by people. But you know what you told off if you chat, be quiet. Enjoy our life.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, trust that whoever's getting the stage time is is worth the quiet the attention.

Dave Chawner:

Definitely.

Michele Baci:

That's so nice. And then I think humor is a great way to bring up mental health conversation to bring up anorexia, I feel like in your TED Talk, it's very funny. And you do you do a good job of like, here's something about my eating disorder. Here's a joke, and you break the tension pretty often, which is great.

Dave Chawner:

Thank you. That's really kind. I mean, yeah, it's all sort of smoke and mirrors. And I've got admit, when I first worked shy about anorexia, I found it really difficult to either. I mean, I was gonna say, keep the gag count. And that's not a that's not appropriate. But keep the sort of jokes ticking along, get

Michele Baci:

enough laughs per minute.

Dave Chawner:

But without the detriment of palming of truth. So yeah, it was difficult to do that. And it's weird, you know, to sort of find that balance, especially, sometimes one of the things that I found about talking about things, like eating disorders is sometimes people can come to you with real aggression, because you think that you're going to be mocking, but my kind of aspect is, you know, humor should be used to belittle or demean anyone, it should actually be used to sort of celebrate everyone.

Michele Baci:

Yeah, maybe, you know, to make it more educational, or just make it more normalized.

Dave Chawner:

As your BBC thing. Entertain, educate, and engage. Work To be honest, but there we go.

Michele Baci:

That's funny. I want to spin a roulette wheel give you a random question to go out.

Dave Chawner:

I love I love this.

Michele Baci:

Make it a game show. Right? I'll give you a spin and I'll tell you where it lands. What's your favorite TV show? either now or something you love to rewatch?

Dave Chawner:

Oh my goodness TV. This is a really, really tricky one for me. I'm I'm gonna go out. And you know what? My favorite one isn't even the one that I've watched that much. But I just love it. And it's Frasier, I just Frasier. So it's like a warm hug. Over there. It was always played about 10 1030. In the daytime, you'd only watch it if you're on holiday. And he's always on and they're bringing in a new series. And I'm not even like a huge Frazier fan. But I'd say, as a TV series as a feeling as of being a part of something and brilliant. I think it ticks all the boxes of what a TV show should be. It doesn't. It doesn't stop you talking doesn't stop. You can watch it in the background. So right. I just think it's perfect as a TV show.

Michele Baci:

That's awesome. I I've never actually seen much of Frasier. I think I've only seen it in the background. Because I think I was like, I was in two friends at the time. They're both airy around the same time. So I didn't have time for Frasier. But I've heard a lot about it, and it does bring up therapy.

Dave Chawner:

dog does and it used that so brilliantly, and also shows as well that they're both flawed, ridiculous characters. I mean, I was thinking of friends as well, but I feel like in 2020 when he has an age well, you know, there's like quite a lot of friends that you know, it's a

Michele Baci:

Yeah, it's so I know that I I've seen all the friends so I know it but I feel like it's funny but it didn't stick is like a show I want to remember forever. It's not like my favorite show.

Dave Chawner:

It's not I could have asked me what film BAM without a doubt Mrs. Doubtfire. That is unequivocally the best film. I mean, they scientists are gonna dig it up and go. What were they What?

Michele Baci:

cinema has been so you think Mrs. Doubtfire holds up,

Dave Chawner:

Bob? Well, yeah, I mean, people have pointed eyes a little bit transphobic and blah, blah, blah. But I just think as I love it for so many reasons that are so different podcast, but one of the things that I do genuinely love about it is the ending. It's not a happy ending. But it's a real world. Michael Miranda, don't get back to it. Sorry, Daniel and Miranda, the two sort of people they don't get back together spoiler alert for anyone but they still remain divorce. The kids don't get everything they want Mrs. Doubtfire is Daniel's character, seemingly doesn't get everything that she wants. But you know what? It's okay. And it's still happy in spite of that. And I just think that's brilliant.

Michele Baci:

It ends realistically.

Dave Chawner:

Yes. Which is so rare of movies. Yeah,

Michele Baci:

I want to rewatch Mrs. Doubtfire. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. My last question is tell us about your book.

Dave Chawner:

Oh, wow. Don't read it. Really? That's I? I was, yeah, it's always asked basically, when I done the sort of tour, I was asked to write this book. And I was a bit like queasy about it, because they kept on saying, you know, sort of tell your story. And I was like, Oh, I don't I don't want to be, like famous and they can say and I started this, this feels very much like, this is my life and stuff. And I was like, Oh, I don't like that. But so the mantra for the book was write the book that I needed when I was 17. And when I was 17, I needed two things. I needed actual tangible coping mechanisms. And I needed people to treat me like a person not a patient as soon as people find out that I've got mental illness they stopped playing pranks they stopped laughing and joking with me so they want to say the wrong thing.

Michele Baci:

Sarah can on eggshells

Dave Chawner:

couldn't agree more. Which is why originally I wanted to call the book cuz it was about anorexia. I wanted to sort of engage comedy I wanted to call it originally the real Hunger Games.

Unknown:

That sounds problematic

Dave Chawner:

but apparently we weren't allowed to for copyright reasons like so was like picking it like pick it up or get some sort of you know, despotic look at the future guy. This guy's talking about weight and calories quite a lot get

Unknown:

on with the killing. Yeah,

Michele Baci:

Susanna Collins did not write this

Unknown:

problem.

Dave Chawner:

Right knowledge by the way as well. That is amazing knowledge will add up. It's basically I use a theoretical I use a psychological model called the transtheoretical code transtheoretical model. Sorry. which basically says Chen changed an app and in one step, it's not like oh, I need to change that. Bam, it's done. There were six stages to change. And the book is structured around that model so that hopefully you can pick it up. And no matter where you are, in the eating disorder cycle, whether you're pre contemplation like I was, I don't even realize that I'm a problem, all the way through to sort of relapse. And so it's all of that wound together and sort of really wrapped up in big joke.

Michele Baci:

As long as there's jokes throughout, then I'm on board.

Dave Chawner:

Actually, ironically, one of the things about my recovery was I had to I found out that I needed a circumcision. So that was, yeah, I didn't realize the sex was was really, really painful for me. So I had to have a circumcision. And then I did a show about that, which I originally wanted to call from the hood. But they they wouldn't let me so call it circumcision. But yeah, that was the ironically is one big joke and Lj,

Michele Baci:

what kind of hopefully that helped you coming to that realization? Like, oh, maybe this is why like, my sex drive was so abysmal.

Dave Chawner:

Yeah, that's a really interesting thing. Because like, yeah, it was it was incredibly painful for me. And also, I used to pass out quite like genuinely once passed that and the act of coitus. Which is that never a good look for

Michele Baci:

but that sounds like a funny story.

Unknown:

Thank you. Yeah.

Dave Chawner:

I mean, I it was funny, my poor partner, for the partner, and also kind of renders. But yeah, he kind of like basically had this thing, where without sharing too much, the neck on my jumper was a little bit too tight. And so it just popped through and like a sad snake it was it was an honorable thing. But now I sort of view sex in a very weird, a very different way of like, it's nice. And you know, it's all lovely, but we're all either laugh, let's not be mental about it. I don't understand why people would lie to their partners would rip their families apart just to do a little bit of hokey pokey.

Michele Baci:

It shouldn't be a life or death type thing. I mean, people talk about like, losing their virginity or coming out of a celibacy phase. And I feel like the answer is always like, just keep waiting. Like you're not run into anything great.

Dave Chawner:

Like my first sexual trouble. Oh, god, that was terrible for everyone involved. Only me, you know, is that a you know? Yeah, it's weird. And it's kind of pervasive cloud that hangs over as of sexuality, of, of sex of arousal. And then they again to come back to this this Freudian thing of like, Freud was like, it's actually more the chase rather than the gang and I think feel that we've got a kind of prick that nerves to the chase and sort of make you really stuck. It's not gonna be on the end or?

Michele Baci:

Yeah, a lot of it's that mental built up.

Dave Chawner:

Yes. Big time.

Michele Baci:

That's so true. But I think your point is, is good. Sex is lovely. It is nice. But it's not the be all end all. You know, it's, it's another part of life.

Dave Chawner:

Well, I always used to make a joke that it's you know, it's all right. But it's kind of like taking the bins out cuz you you know, you've if you're in a relationship, you do it once a week. And then everyone's happy. So yeah.

Michele Baci:

Taking the benz out, like the car?

Dave Chawner:

no, sorry, the bins like empty bins.

Unknown:

So you might

Michele Baci:

take in the Mercedes Benz for a drive.

Dave Chawner:

I would love to be on Benz type salary. I mean, Jesus

Unknown:

moments.

Theme Song:

That's funny. So it's like taking out the trash. guy

Dave Chawner:

you thought since I should have said that taking out the trash Friday.

Michele Baci:

I hope you know that's a that's a low estimate analogy. And we'll sell some more of your books. You know, maybe you go back on tour once the pandemic ends, and then you'll get that first 80s bands

Unknown:

be great.

Michele Baci:

That's so funny. Well, Dave, thank you so much for talking to me. Tell us where to find you and where people can follow you.

Dave Chawner:

Bless you. If any of this has made. You want to follow me, I think take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and ask why. But I my website is Dave Chawner dot co dot UK I'm on Twitter at Dave Chawner so that's c-h-a-w-n-e-r. And there's also new excitingly, comedy for coping dot com if you want to have a little look at that. But thank you very much, Michele. Thank you so much. I hope to talk soon. Yeah, definitely.

Michele Baci:

This has been Therapy Roulette: consent to vent!. If you enjoyed this episode a few very quick things you could do to help the podcast are leaving a review Review, you can leave me a review on rate this podcast.com slash therapy, or you can leave a review. Wherever you listen to podcasts. It only takes a couple seconds to do and it really helps spread the word. tell a friend about the podcast, anyone who's into mental health or comedy, or who needs to, like, hear about mental health and comedy. If you think they'd like the podcast, tell them text them share the link. It really helps. It's just tell people about the podcast. Also, while you're listening, if you take a screenshot of this episode, and share it on social media and tag me, I'll be sure to reshare and that also builds momentum. So on Instagram, I'm at Therapy Roulette pod. On Twitter. I'm at Therapy Roulette. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back with a new episode next Thursday.

Theme Song: Therapy Roulette:

Consent to Vent / Trauma disguised as comedy / Therapy Roulette: Consent to Vent / If you dont have problems, then youre likely repressing sh*t and you should find a therapist/ (Whos not me)