Sobbing Before Therapy and Writing About Grief w/ Katie Tamola

Michele (@michelebaci) gripes about the unpredictability of home ownership. Today’s guest is books and culture writer Katie Tamola (@katietamola). The ladies discuss making awkward eye contact and the pinnacle moment of turning thirty and confronting society’s implied milestones. They talk about dissecting Instagram from reality, the pros of being single vs. in a relationship, calling yourself a goddamn writer and cutting out imposter syndrome. Katie opens up about her current writing project that revolves around grief and suggests some books on the subject. Michele advises that everyone should strive to date someone who has been to therapy before! They discuss how to convince yourself that you’re the sh*t and build up your confidence. Katie tells us how she got suspended from Twitter.
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Follow Katie Tamola!

IG: @katietamola

Newish Twitter: @tamolatweets

Twitter: @katietamola

http://www.katietamola.com
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Theme music by Hannah Fairchild

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https://open.spotify.com/artist/5rlyuj1AOlLdLCV5MRFc9P?si=muDK4Rr3RXWMGhBCP0fQaw

Transcript available: https://therapyroulette.buzzsprout.com/1368259

Transcript

Theme Song: 0:05

Therapy Roulette Consent to Vent / Trauma disguised as comedy / Therapy Roulette: Consent to Vent / If you dont have problems, then youre likely repressing sh*t and you should find a therapist/ (Whos not me)

Michele Baci: 0:19

Hello, and welcome back to Therapy Roulette. I'm so excited to be recording, although I have procrastinated as per usual, it's late at night. And this is supposed to come out any second now. So here I am showing up at the last possible second, hey, Joseph and I have purchased a home, we bought a house, somehow it all worked out. And we've been doing a lot of repairs, getting ready to move from our little apartment to this bigger house. And there's a lot of shit we have to fix. There's like a big list. We have a deadline, some stuff just does it work that we weren't aware of. And I'm not gonna get too into detail, because it's still too early to say everything seems to be changing on a 24 hour cycle. But I've heard this about homeownership. It. It's all smoke and mirrors, and you don't know what you're getting into until you're there. Right? As is so many risk taking things in life. You just don't know what's going to happen until you're doing it. And you can't predict moment to moment, what's going to hit you. But we've been fixing broken things in this house. And it just feels like similar to john bellinis joke about the horse being let loose in the hospital. Like, what happened before we got there? Who was taking care of this home? Who was saying this was okay, I don't know there's a horse in the hospital and we're just trying to correct what's going on. Please pray for me. I'm not even religious update on my life. I've been feeling stuck. Literally, I am stuck in my apartment, waiting to move to the house. And knowing it's there. It's so close is almost worse, because it's like the quicksand beads are just falling little grain of sand by little a grain of sand. And it's more torturous to know it's like in my grasp. And yet I cannot speed up time. So I'm trying to embrace the present, enjoy the moment. And it is so challenging. It's so hard. I joined the gym recently. I just did it Joseph and I bought a gym pass and we're sharing it so one of us can go as the other ones guest that's not going to last long. But for now we're trying to be budget conscious. And it's good. It feels good to be going back to the gym, I'm still like, definitely not trying to work out right next to strangers and spacing out as much as possible. Like if there's empty machines, I will gladly take a machine without a neighbor. And I'm starting to do weightlifting, which is new for me. But overall, the gym is great for me. My mental health needs exercise. My physical health probably needs exercise too. But my mind is just like, Oh my God, please do something physical so you can get out of your own anxiety addled brain. Just get the blood pumping, get that sweat move in. And it's honestly like, I think that's the lowest tier of my hierarchy of needs. It's like exercise, just go work out, go remember your life and you will feel a million times better. So I'm trying to do that more. I definitely can't create the best habit. Right now. You know, if I go once a week, that's better than zero. So we're starting really small. Some general reminders, you guys know already. But if you have any ideas for the podcast, or if you think of a good guest or like a topic in the realm of mental health psychology, comedy is fair game, of course. I'm trying to be funnier now that we're a little less pandemic-y. Send me an email, my email is Therapy roulette@gmail.com you can DM me on social, I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram. If you have ideas if you want to say hi. If you want to, you know, say something nice, send me a message. Also, if you really want this podcast to stand the test of time, and you want to do a good deed, leave a review. Wherever you listen to podcasts, give us a nice rating. Say a few kind words. It takes literally 10 seconds, send that review in cyberspace at Wow. Someone else will hear about Therapy Roulette because you took that time to leave a review. Thank you in advance. Our guest today is a friend I met in a writing class. years ago before I moved to LA. I met her in New York. She is a true New Yorker. She is a writer who often writes about books and culture. She is also very much into her dogs and always sharing very cute dog pictures. She is a shining light on social media. I am so happy to walk up to the podcast, Katie Tamola

Theme Song: 5:43

guest interview / a friend for you / strangers whose issues are relatable / guest interview / They're the voice that's new / this person has problems and they don't mind discussing it, but they still need a therapist / (Whos not me)

Michele Baci: 5:58

We're here with Katie tamala. She is a writer. She loves her dogs. She loves you probably. And she's in the middle of writing a book. She's also obsessed with the Yankees, the baseball team, so that makes one of us. But I love her enthusiasm. Katie, welcome to the podcast.

Katie Tamola: 6:16

Well much for having me. I'm so excited when you when I found out you're doing a podcast and especially when I found out what your podcast is about. I was like, This is funny to be on this podcast. So I'm so excited. Thank you.

Michele Baci: 6:28

Thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah, enthusiasm from the gecko before anything happened. I was like someone likes the idea. That's like plus one any support. I was like, give it to me. I am you know, a broken shell of a human. I need the support.

Katie Tamola: 6:42

beautiful angel of a human But no, it's a great it's honestly, like I it is a very good I have when i when i you know cuz you sometimes you see a podcast idea. And you're like, Sure, go ahead, like, you know about golf grass. And you're like, Hey, if you're passionate about golf for us, sure. But there's there's like what you do is they're not there isn't an audience for golf grass. But like, what do you do? There's a very, very good audience wide audience. So I'm excited for sharing. There's

Michele Baci: 7:09

not enough therapy conversations early there wasn't when I was, you know, an impressionable teenager. So that's what I tried to create. Now for sure, I

Katie Tamola: 7:19

feel like because I yeah, I feel like the See I feel the same. It was very much like, I feel like it's just now in the past. Like, I don't know if it was 2022 because it was such a, like, such a strange time. But yeah, I feel like just now we're really starting to be like, okay, it's like an okay thing to talk about. Because it used to be this thing where it was like, don't say you're going to the dentist, say that you like, Roll Call your toes, like don't say what you're actually doing after work. And when no, I agree.

Michele Baci: 7:52

Yeah, I think 2020 felt like a decade. So we probably made a hopefully a lot of progress at that time. Right?

Katie Tamola: 7:59

No, it did. It will. Oh, yeah. For sure. It's been around a while time. Yeah. Wow. It's like, Oh,

Michele Baci: 8:08

so yeah, shake it off.

Katie Tamola: 8:11

But literally, I'm like, I and it's so funny, because now it's you know, now it's almost June. And I feel like this year has been so weird as well. Like, it's because obviously things are getting better. Thank God and you know, think about all the people who've lost and like, that's so terrible. And like, Yeah, and it's just, it's just been such a crazy time that it's like this year and 2020. Like, it was like so slow, but also like, I feel like 2021 it's just like, oh my god, it's already June, you know, like, and I still don't know, my ask for my elbow, like I you know, it's just, it's crazy time and I'm like, you know, it's like and I think we're all just gonna like, I think we're all like learning how to live outside again. And you know, not that anyone was taking that for granted before but like really not taking it for granted. Now I'm just trying our best and,

Michele Baci: 8:57

and I think we're like, throwing a sledgehammer to society a little bit at least, like, we have to rebuild and I have been so inside the past year, I like come out of my house and I'm like, do people think I'm doing this right? Am I am I talking correctly? am I eating? Okay, like, I don't I don't know what you're supposed to do anymore. It's weird.

Katie Tamola: 9:17

No, literally. I'm like, it's actually really funny. I went for a run today. And because that's, it was weird or something I got into last year wasn't ever in, in college, like a little bit like, on my own, like very small runs, whatever. But today this is an ode to New York City, which I love. I grew up here I'm obsessed, bias etc, everything forever. But I was on a run today and I made like, you know, when you make eye contact with someone for a beat too long, you know when you're like, it was fine, but it just held eyes for too long. And he looked at me and I honestly I did not look my best I was on and I was the end and he looked at me. He was like, oh, like that was the expression he made and it was Oh, fuckin funny. And I was like, Oh, I was like New York is just we're almost We're almost there, baby, we're

Michele Baci: 10:08

thrown off your run, right? We're into like, Oh, that's gonna slow down my speed

Katie Tamola: 10:14

was like I was like, we were by like Dylan's candy bar. And I was like, I was like, there's so much in this area going on that like, I can't relate to that. I'm like, I'm open to your constructive criticism. Like,

Michele Baci: 10:28

like really had nothing to do with you. You just caught his eye at that moment. It was like he whipped the sewer trash smell of wherever he was. And that's what hit him.

Katie Tamola: 10:37

No, New York is a very like you. What, and it's all in the eye contact. Like you just sometimes. Sometimes the contact just gets you in trouble. And like, I've that's maybe what I've learned.

Michele Baci: 10:49

But I give you props. Yeah, I don't make eye contact like not when I'm walking with strangers I'd like strictly look at nothing. I try to avoid people. And that's not good. I should look at I should look at people.

Katie Tamola: 11:00

Oh, honestly, I think that's totally fine. Because like, it's honestly when I think of like, looking. That's not even the first time in New York City where I've made eye contact someone and been like, yep, nope, that didn't. That didn't end superbly.

Michele Baci: 11:18

But then you have like a little bit of moment, a moment shared with that person, and it kind of connects you. I'm like, Hey, man. Like, I also feel disgust about this quarter of the of the city.

Katie Tamola: 11:30

I'm like, it's straight up 92 degrees. And I might vomit. So fair enough. Like,

Michele Baci: 11:37

no one likes that.

Katie Tamola: 11:39

Oh, man. It was like, people were talking about some of the city's not really sumeria it's the enemy. But we're basically there and like some of the city is it hits different hits, if you can. It's a swamp time. It's the swan time and you're just like everyone's, I went to Yankee Stadium. One of my good friends name's Bob logs from Pennsylvania. He'd never been to Yankee Stadium. He's lived in New York now for like seven years. So, two or three years ago. He's like, nobody seen him. I got great seats from my boss, my old boss, Mike Angel, big Yankee fan. He and I superintends about the Yankees. And he just gave me his tickets. And they were like, on the first baseline, like, amazing, very generous. I was like, no Bob like, let's go to we go to other friends and it's 100 degrees. Michelle was oh my god. And we all just sat there. He like basically the entire crowd and I'm crazy. I love the Aggies but the entire crowd was like, we cannot move. Yeah, of us can exert that much energy. We were like

Michele Baci: 12:39

it's not like a it's not like a concert where they're like these people might pass out we got a spray water on them. They probably don't care.

Katie Tamola: 12:46

Everybody's like there. But we all were just like melting. And Bob was like, and it was a walk off. It was a very exciting game, like at the end, but I was we all were like I had red lipstick on from work. And it was like I looked like the Joker. It was melting off. And I was like, Yeah, that

Michele Baci: 12:59

sounds about right. You're too brave sopping this brave in the summer.

Katie Tamola: 13:04

It's not what literally was like talking about overshoot. And now after like, a year and a half in the pandemic, I'm like, I think I've put on lipstick like twice and I've photographed I'm like this moment will be commemorated because it's basically a feat I've I'm basically like an you know, a graduate degree accomplishment. I got put on

Michele Baci: 13:27

I think I'm coming to New York soon in in June. So I think I'll just bring one of the necklace fan water bottle sprays with me and I'll carry that around.

Katie Tamola: 13:38

I saw kid with that today. I was like that That girl is gonna be the president she literally

Unknown: 13:43

Yeah, he kind

Katie Tamola: 13:45

of knew. Yeah, getting from borough to borough, you need something to walk from like Avenue Ada Avenue be from Burma. But anytime. Like it'll be. Yeah, it'll be a test. After friendship when like your friend moves to another borough or like part of state. Mm hmm. You really find out like if they like you. You were telling me you move from Manhattan to Brooklyn was that? Was that because of a reason? Or we you just like found a better place? I really I wanted to, like I wanted to have like, my own season of The Apprentice and see like, my friends really liked me and see like, my success was no, that makes sense.

Michele Baci: 14:31

It's a great litmus test.

Katie Tamola: 14:34

No, I was like, let me because it's like, where I live in Brooklyn. It's like D so last, it's the last stop on the AR. Anytime I give someone my address. You see them like grimace and like sorry.

Michele Baci: 14:46

Are you in Coney Island?

Katie Tamola: 14:48

Oh, I'm like I said I'm right near there. No, it's great eautiful neighborhood and it's like and I love it. It's like scenic and I'm probably moving back to Manhattan just because I have Um, you know, probably thinking about moving in back in with my family. Because, you know, that's a, just in the cards and, you know, let me be 30 and, uh, my mom is my favorite person. And I'm like, not now I've gone back. It's probably like, but no, I think that that's just because I'm like, after the pandemic and everything, like, I moved, I basically moved. I moved in 2019 in November, and then the pandemic kind of hit that the the following March. And, and, you know, it was I just, it was, I felt bad because it was tough for so many people. And it was, you know, it was a wasn't that far for my family, you know, an hour train ride. It's really not terrible an hour, an hour and a half. But I'm just now i think that i think it's time for me to kind of figure out like, there's no point my life where like, I love it. I love my apartment. But yeah, I just I kind of have to regroup. So I'm like, I think I'm going to go ahead with Hatton and just like figure out my next step, you know, because a lot of some of my friends are buying houses and stuff and like, Is anybody gonna give me a house mortgage? Probably not at this point. Um, you know, it's like, there are things that I want to like, kind of figure out and I'm like, I think I might come back here to do that. And, and I really miss my dogs. So like, okay, I spent a lot of time with the dogs. No, my apartment doesn't allow dogs. Oh, my

Michele Baci: 16:30

God. Oh, that's like a big reason to leave then.

Katie Tamola: 16:32

Yeah, I think it's the end of the road. Because my dogs it's so funny though. Because my dogs like they like they like me peanut, I might even venture to say loves me. But they are in love. I'm talking cry outside of the bathroom. When he like if they're away from him, like they are in love with my stepfather. He stood outside next to the front door, and they just stood there for an hour. And I was like, Hey, I was like, I have treats. I have entertainment in the form of my existence. I and they were like, No,

Michele Baci: 17:06

no, this new person, that's who he was.

Katie Tamola: 17:09

Literally, they were like, and they were in love with him. So like, I remember when I first came back, I was like, I turned 20 and I came home and then Trixie looked at me like I know you from somewhere.

Michele Baci: 17:21

Cuz your dogs I remember when we first like met and we were in that writing class together, you would talk about your dogs constantly. So to know you're living without them. It's like, an identity is missing.

Katie Tamola: 17:31

Right now. It's it's a very, it's funny, because I remember when I actually just saw the neighbor who said this to me. I was doing laundry earlier. And last year, she was like, did you move out? And I was like, yeah, you know, like, temporarily and she was like, just like, how could you leave the dogs behind? And I was like, Whoa, I was like, that's a good question. But also like, especially, I was like, I was like, wow, I was like I have a lot to think about, but also but especially with Trixie like, and my mom too. Like it's Murphy, my stepdad. And then they're like my mom's in a very close second. And then I'll maybe like number five,

Michele Baci: 18:06

like, maybe they just know you the best. So they're like, we know she'll always come back like that move on.

Katie Tamola: 18:12

That's what my old supervisor Cliff said at my job when we were all in that writing classes. He was my supervisor at that job that I had during the time. And he was like Katie who's like, you gotta play hard to get with Trixie because like she just knows, she just knows. Always there.

Michele Baci: 18:28

You'll always come back with the treats and the attention

Katie Tamola: 18:32

might be freakishly on to something but yeah, but no, I'm literally she like yawns and I'm like, that was the cutest thing I've ever seen in my entire life. No one. No one has ever gone as well. No being. She's just like, yeah, go take a nap. Oh,

Michele Baci: 18:48

that's so cute. I know. I know where you're coming from now with the the pinnacle of turning 30 kind of regroup mentally cuz you're like, this is a big, big deal. What do I do? Like, I've never been more driven to spend time with my parents and like, they're so far away. What did I do to myself? So right, I want to go to New York as much as possible.

Katie Tamola: 19:08

Horse Yeah, no. And like, it just gets to it's like, I feel like it was so when we were in our 20s like, it was so like, built even before then. Like, it's just like, 3030 3030 it's this big thing. And yeah, sure, like, but I mean, every birthday is you know, every birthday is like, whoo. Yeah,

Michele Baci: 19:27

I've always made it a big deal. I always throw myself a party. But then 30 i 30 was like pandemic and I was like, Okay, this feels right.

Katie Tamola: 19:36

Like that. And that's so much like to have like a 30th birthday. Like during the pandemic is like so much to think about. There's this extra layer because it's like the world is kind of at a standstill and like this horrible thing is happening and you don't know and you're away from home, but like I give you a lot of credit because like, you know, I'm about to, you know, turn 30 and a few months and I'm just like, it just it puts you in an interesting light. Mental like thought process where you're just kind of like, and I think it's hard. Oh,

Michele Baci: 20:06

it's so hard, but it's so unfair, like the woman checkbox that like you have to go down that checklist, like, I should have done all this shit at the time I was 30 or like, Around this time, and I'm nowhere near it.

Katie Tamola: 20:20

Right, exactly, exactly. And like, I used to feel that so much worse when I was like, probably when you and I first met like I like that's like sweet spot to be like 2526 like I would be

Michele Baci: 20:32

Yeah, just be I think we were all like miserable together.

Katie Tamola: 20:35

Right? Exactly like, because it was just like, especially in the age of social media. Like it's just very much like, I do enjoy social media. Like, I love Twitter. I love Instagram, like Facebook. Sure I use it to get in touch with. Yeah, family that I think is

Michele Baci: 20:50

I see positives from all of them.

Katie Tamola: 20:52

Right, exactly, you know, kind of like just forming and keeping these connections with people. But I just like looking back on it now. Like I really kind of, I think the coolest thing, or one of the coolest things about almost being 30. For me personally, and I can't say this is anyone else's experience. But I think one of the coolest things for me has kind of been like, recognizing, like, if I see a girl I went to college with like, she posts photos of like her wedding, or her you know, buying a house or having a kid and you really it's all three, like usually it's like 2018 to 720 20 like, and you're like, yeah,

Michele Baci: 21:30

you either have, like you have the creative passion that you're doing. Or you're buying a house having a kid gay married, like it's usually one or the other.

Katie Tamola: 21:39

So I used to kind of like when we were 25. I used to be like, man, I used to just get so like that super down. But I'd be like, wow, you know, just kind of like, I don't know. And now I kind of look at that. And I'm like, Do I want that? I think that is something I want in the future.

Michele Baci: 21:58

Yeah, you kind of have to break it down. You have to like step back and be like, what do I actually think?

Katie Tamola: 22:04

right? Exactly. You have to step back. And you have to actually, like, this is just what I think like you've just stepped back and actually be like, okay, is that something I want? Because for a while I was like, you know, I've I've had friends who are like I you know, women and men who are like, I've always known I wanted to be a parent. And I haven't always known I want to be a parent. And like now I'm like warming up to the idea. Can anyone give me a child right now? No, but like, I now I've got the one of the coolest things to me. I think about like, almost turning 30 is Yeah, it's scary. It scares me because like, like you said, I'm thinking about, you know, mortality and stuff. And like, I want to spend all this time with my mom and I want to you know how my life but I also like, also spend time with the people I love.

Michele Baci: 22:45

Yeah. You realize, like the people you are closest to that's like the one of the most important things.

Katie Tamola: 22:52

Right? And it's kind of also like, I look now and I'm like, I kind of try to identify these emotions. I see these people I went to school with and I'm like, you had a beautiful wedding, you've got to dance with your dad. Now you have a beautiful house and or you have a baby, and I just look at that. And I'm like, you know what, like, Am I I don't know if MBs is the right word like it might be. And honestly, I can't like fully figure out I'm like, is it jealousy? Is it because it's unlike? I'm kind of I think I'm genuinely happy for them. But I think I've just like noticed something in me. I'm like, sometimes Yeah, like, I am a little bummed that I don't have that right now. And like, then I get into this thing. Like, what if I don't ever have that? And I'm kind of, it's really hard for me to ever start a sentence with I'm proud of myself. Yeah, like, I'm kind of proud of me for being like, you know what, like, I kind of wish I had that. And you know, I hope one day I'm fortunate enough to have it. And that's okay. Like, I remember being like 25 and being like, or 26 or however old and being like, kind of feeling ashamed that I wanted you know, it's it sucks thing you know, like, yeah, instead, like, have someone feel like you're less of an independent person or something because you want to find that. And now like now, and I think that's one of the cooler things about growing up is like, okay, I want this. I'm not hurting anyone. I respect other people. I love other people. If I want this, fuck you, if you like think less of me because I want to like, find something with someone like yeah, I'm good. You can.

Michele Baci: 24:18

I think we just look under that magnifying glass all the time because of Instagram. We're like, wow, I know everything about this person because of the one post they did. Right? That's not true.

Katie Tamola: 24:31

And it's so funny because we really do believe that we're like, oh, yeah, like, she has an amazing life. But ya know, she went to like a winery with her best friends for her Bachelorette. So her life is perfect. She has ever known pain, like literally like mental I'm like, Whoa, like, Hey, girl. Chill. Yeah, exactly that

Michele Baci: 24:51

you're like no, they just went to a winery. This is not her whole life. They're like,

Katie Tamola: 24:55

no, like she literally just went to a winery and thing I'm 10 like it's it's it's okay. Like you can go, you too can get apple cider in September if you'd like,

Michele Baci: 25:04

shout out to big and say that's where I went to school. If you're busy. You have another problem. What do you say? I said, I remember that. Yeah. Like I miss it. Because it's like just a soldier now and like, I've been on the West Coast too long. I miss all my stomping grounds, but don't stay there too long.

Katie Tamola: 25:23

No, I totally. Yeah. Now I'm like, it's weird how you like get to like, because I was like, we were probably, like, eight ish years ago. And I'm like, Oh, my God, time goes by so quickly. But I'm also like, it's so funny because I'm like, I don't know that I want to be 21. Again, like, I'm like, I didn't know. Because when I was 21, I thought I knew everything. When I was fucking 17. I thought I knew everything. And now I'm about to be 30. And I'm like, I know nothing. And that's totally cool. Like, that's totally fine.

Michele Baci: 25:49

There's like, there's such a grass is always greener mentality where like, you always like, want to be going to the next thing like I want that house. I want that, you know, relationship, whatever. And honestly, like I I'm in a relationship or buying a house, not all it's cracked up to be I could tell you, you know, I miss being single. Sometimes I miss having no responsibilities. Like you tweeted something recently. That was like, tell me what it's like to be the loving relationship. And I want to just be like, Katie just enjoy being single. And you know how to say it well over Twitter. So it's like, I'm not gonna know, I totally I've had I've definitely had people say that to me now for sure. No, it's like, it's just the lack of compromise. Like you're just doing you all the time. And that's its own special thing.

Katie Tamola: 26:32

No, that is very, there are definitely strengths to being six strength pros to being

Michele Baci: 26:38

signaled their strengths. Yeah.

Katie Tamola: 26:45

I do like that. Like if I'm, like, very, like, randomly, I'm not a big traveler. I don't know. I don't know what it is like, you don't love travel. To travel. I'm kind of worse. I like

Michele Baci: 26:56

but then it's like hard handed back to millennials, I guess.

Katie Tamola: 27:00

Right? Because like, it's so funny, because I like have like, beautiful, wonderful people in my life. And they're like, let's go here. Or not even like with me, they're just like, I want to go here so bad. And I'm like, I want to go to Macau. Like, like, a lot of people also want to go to their houses. So I think they get it but, and I also think like after 2020 kind of more like my mom and I are watching a lot of Queen of the South, which is a very violent show. But she was in Malta, and Malta is beautiful. I was like, I think I want to go to Malta. Yeah. I don't want to travel. So it's like this interesting thing, but I do. Being single is cool. Like, I try to tell myself because like, you never know what's gonna happen. You don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. Like, you don't know what's gonna. And also if I wanted to go to Malta tomorrow by myself, like, I could do it. Yeah, you know, I'd have to take for me, like, Please let me go to Malta. But I'm cool. You know, like, and I'm also I think, like, a lot of single people, including myself are, you know, I'm proud of what I'm trying. I'm trying so hard to be proud of what I've built on my own.

Michele Baci: 28:01

I try to view you're doing so much stuff. You're so sweet. You're living off the artrain. That's not easy. Like you're you're writing all the time. You're working on a book proposal. You're on social media. You're doing it all. Thank you. Of course, you're going to your gym. We have to tell each other. We're proud of each other because we don't hear it. I'm proud of you to Hell yeah. Thank you. You're awesome. I bought a microphone. And it's sick. It looks awesome. Thank you. I like Tell me, tell me about writing for Shonda land. How long have you been doing that? And how did you get into it? Because you got to do that after our writing class. Is that right?

Katie Tamola: 28:45

It was literally right after I started writing for them right after our writing class. I can I honestly cannot say enough positive things about tromelin. Basically, you know, that class is a godsend the one that we took together. You guys were so awesome. You know, Dana was awesome. Um, and you know, it's kind of really what I needed. I'm kind of like the person who needs like, a, I love when things are like, Alright, literally, this is what you have to do step a step b sub c. I'm sure there's a word for that. And I'm just, you know, blanking on an eloquent way of delivering that, but if someone gives you,

Michele Baci: 29:20

yes, I'm gonna give you the instructions.

Katie Tamola: 29:22

Right? I do love like, step by step process. And our class was very much like, Alright, you know, you like something you like a publication. You gotta find a way to like, you know, this is what you do. You email an editor and you say, Hi, I'm Michelle. I'm Katie. And don't say I'm an aspiring writer. I thought that was some of the best advice like Don't be like I'm an aspiring writer, which is very much I think a lot of us tend to be like, I'm an aspiring it's like, no, you're writer, you want to be writer you've written before you are a writer. I am a writer from Manhattan, etc, etc. So

Michele Baci: 29:57

that word is so wishy washy, aspiring, it's like Oh, are you Dre mean?

Katie Tamola: 30:02

right? Exactly. It's very much like, Okay, well, you know, exactly like, you know, it's kind of like the, you know, it's like it. It's, you know, it's kind of makes you think of maybe like grade school when like, they asked what you want to do. And it's like, this is Daniel, he's an aspiring doctor. And it's like, no, you're 25 you've written for, you know, even if it's a blog, it's assumed newspaper. It's your own diary at home, like you're a fucking writer. Yeah. You also,

Michele Baci: 30:30

like, went to college and took a bunch of like, didn't you get an English degree? Right. So like you did, all

Katie Tamola: 30:37

right, I got an early Ed degree. And then I went to and then I got a journalism degree, which was fun. And then it was really cool to like something, something that I really loved. Like, I loved journalism school. Yeah, it was intense. And it was in Boston, and I hate the Red Sox. And that was it. And they won the World Series naturally the moment there, because that's how life works. But um, you know, all throwing curveballs. Yeah, exactly. And then the Patriots won. I was like, Am I like an omen for my own sadness? But I don't really want

Michele Baci: 31:04

maybe it was just that I was like, a universe saying get

Katie Tamola: 31:06

out of Boston? Yeah. No, the universe was like, I hope, I think from the moment I stepped in Boston, they were like, you, we know, you hate the Red Sox. And you must. And I was, like, fair,

Michele Baci: 31:20

even that, like a journalism degree. Obviously, you're a writer, like you took a whole degree program.

Katie Tamola: 31:28

You know, and it's, it's sometimes hard to like, it's just hard to be, you know, you kind of want to my mom says this often to me about myself. She's like, and I actually had a boss recently say to me that my like, I just, it is who I am kind of like, I'm just kind of self deprecating, which I think that a lot of people I think a lot of some people are and, and like my mom and my, one of my recent bosses, like it's reflected in your work sometimes. So it's good to kind of get those like pieces of advice, where it's like, no, you're not aspiring writer, you're a writer. Yeah.

Michele Baci: 32:04

And be more ballsy. Go for it.

Katie Tamola: 32:06

Great. And exactly like that's, and so now, so I was just kind of like searching I, I knew that I wanted to, I wanted to write something. I knew I was, I knew, like, I knew when we took that class was the first really like, big freelance piece I ever got. Published was about self harm.

Michele Baci: 32:32

I remember the cut, right?

Katie Tamola: 32:35

It was, um, refinery. 2929. Okay, I remember IDN Yeah, thank you so much. Now super exciting.

Michele Baci: 32:42

And then I knew vulnerable to

Katie Tamola: 32:45

thank, you know, it was a, it was cool. And it was like a gift to be able to write it. And so I knew that that was like, those are the things that I like, kind of lived, right, like really just like, you know, human things like and that's also what I look in foreign books, like I want to promote and share and read human books, books that are like, you know, these are the highs of being a human. These are the lows, these are the things that a lot of humans might not experience. These are the things a lot of humans probably will experience. So that's what that's kind of how I found myself shaundalyn I knew that. I was just it was a lot of like, our class taught us a lot of research and like just finding editors. And I was just pitching to editors and was like, Hey, I have this idea for like Father's Day books. And I had this idea to write about my father, my father had passed away. And I wanted to write about kind of like the I used the word, I have to find a new word because I I like bodies' word fragmented relationship that we had. Okay, that was it. That's I don't know that that's the right word. It was just, it was complicated. It was a complicated relationship. We loved each other. We love each other. You know, in life and death, I think he and I, but we had a complicated relationship. And it kind of got read after data got a little bit more complicated. And so I wanted to write about that. And that's how, so I like formed a relationship with an editor from Shauna LAN. The email, she was super nice and encouraging. And I ended up not writing that piece for her. But then I started writing book coverage for them. And that was in 2017. And yeah, I've just been really lucky. They've been really wonderful to me. I am. Yeah, and I just, that's awesome.

Michele Baci: 34:27

Thank you for writing that book since 2017. That's like, that's quite the accomplishment. Like you're reading all those books and writing about them. It's not easy.

Katie Tamola: 34:36

Thank you so much. No, it's um, man. If I could recommend some really like powerful books I've read this year probably like, just good books about like, honestly like grief and just being a human like, the best. I've read this year very much like just about being a human. And right now I'm working on something for shaundalyn that I've actually been working on for a year and a half. It's sorry about blue And I interviewed people from across the country about their experiences with grief and what they wish people knew about, like, their experiences with grief. And it's something we don't talk about, like it's untagged unless you're going through it.

Michele Baci: 35:14

I don't write your batteries

Katie Tamola: 35:16

right now. And it's a thank you. No, that's what I thought. So I so that's, that's what I'm and that's kind of my like, I'd say like passion project right now like,

Michele Baci: 35:31

yeah, a year and a half like, Yeah, and it's that I'm going to be for Shana lander, is that going to be something else like the book you're working on?

Katie Tamola: 35:40

It's going to be for Shauna land, and it'll hopefully we're still, we're selling like the editing process. So hopefully, you know, and I just want to do right by the people who shared with me, so I like and I think that that's a lot of like, something that I'm sure, like, everyone, it's so funny. I was like, I just feel a lot of imposter syndrome all the time. And, um, you know, I really want this grief story to be good. Because it's not just about my grief. It's about a bunch of different people. And it's not really like, it's not really about me, it's about all these people who shared with me who lost people who meant the world to them or had these experiences. So I got in my eyes, there have been a few times over the year where I've like, gotten in my head and I've been like, this is gonna like this. This isn't, you know, I'm not going to do this, right? Like, I'm going to disappoint these people and like, so I'm just kind of trying right now to just be like, Alright, okay, sure. Like, I just like let my like what I talked about in therapy like my like, Dana, shout out to Dana.

Michele Baci: 36:42

Mental teacher data.

Katie Tamola: 36:45

We love. Oh, yes. Dana and my therapist is named data. We shout out Dana short. She's a gem,

Michele Baci: 36:54

and oatmeal. All the other data is out there. Thank you for your work now. canadain is know your name, Dana. That's fine. Oh, I

Katie Tamola: 37:05

should I should have I literally it's so funny, cuz that's how I like I'm like, I'm Dana. But for an I have like spoken a lot about like, when I have like a negative thought or something just kind of like, just like, you just got to like, let that like, go. You have the thought and then you just she was like, and then just like, watch it go. Yeah. Don't hold on to it. Right. And it's definitely easier said than done. I'm a big hold holder on the things. But yeah, no, I so that's so Shauna has been really good to me. I'm nothing but wonderful things to say about them. And I'm hoping I just hope they keep having me, you know, like, I just want to write for them forever. And, and I really hope that agree story. I hope that the people who were generous enough to share with me I really, really, really hope and pray they like it. And

Michele Baci: 37:51

yeah, I'm sure they will. Like I think you're I do this to where you're like making it into such a bigger pedestal thing. And you're like, it has to be the best it could possibly be. But really, if you just put it out there, I'm sure people will love it. And they're not going to know how much better it could be. Because that's all in your head.

Katie Tamola: 38:08

Thank you know, there you go. Yeah, and it's no, it's definitely like, I'm just hoping I can you know, get it out there. And I'm excited. You know what I'm

Michele Baci: 38:19

gonna keep asking you about, I'll be like, Katie, where is it? How's it going?

Katie Tamola: 38:23

It's funny, my mom and someone else we were like, Here is it? And I was like, it's coming. It's coming. It's coming? It's good question. But from

Michele Baci: 38:30

Yeah, but sometimes it takes Yeah, a lot of like, fits and starts and like you have to get it to a certain place.

Katie Tamola: 38:36

Right, exactly. And just kind of figuring out, you know, like, how does this making sure that everything is, you know, reflected as best as best as you know, best effort and everything. And yeah, so it's been it's been cool. What's a,

Michele Baci: 38:53

what's a book about grief, you can recommend because I think people experience grief in the traditional sense. And also, like, maybe they're estranged from someone or they have to, like, mourn that someone's gone from their life.

Katie Tamola: 39:04

Right? Um, that's a really good question. I would say because grief, like you just said like, Greek is very, in some ways, it's very, you know, I initially I gotta say, it's not one size fits all because it's definitely not, you know, like, your relationship with the person you've lost is not my relationship with person I lost and so forth. But, you know, I think there are similarities, but I'm like, I think there are similarities and like, in the ways that it is one size fits all just in my research and just my personal experience. The one way that it's one size fits all that a lot of people don't know how to talk about it makes people very uncomfortable. Even it's as a neighbor in the elevator. Like I've had neighbors in elevators be like, heard your one time the guy was like, heard your dad met his demise. And I was like, well, oh my god. We weren't storing in a Shakespearean play. But yes, he did. Like I you know, like people just you know, and he, you know, probably isn't trying to be But like, it's people just don't know what to say. And they get uncomfortable. Or sometimes they say like, what feels like in the moment, the worst thing? So I think that's like a big commonality.

Michele Baci: 40:11

There probably not at all realizing how it'll sound to you like, that's not demise. It's not great.

Katie Tamola: 40:18

Think about this for the next three years, but Okay. Cool, cool, cool. Yeah. But one of this, one of the recent books I read was called what comes after by Joanne Tompkins. And it's like such a wild plot. It's like, there's like, it's not, it's not like a super wild plot. It's just like the breadth of forgiveness that you have to like, ponder in relation to the plot, like, it's what is a wild mental experience. Basically, the plot of the book is that these two boys grew up as best friends I kind of grew apart in high school, but they're still relatively close. And they die in a murder suicide. And there is a young woman who knows both of them, and she kind of just like, emerges and she's, they're all teenagers. And she's pregnant. And one of the, one of the deceased teenage boys, his dad takes her in this young girl he does not know and like, and it just like, unfolds into this beautiful, beautiful, very, just so thoughtful, and a human and taking something so dark and like, bringing hope into it in like, this, like, it just felt realistic if felt like, because life is fucked up. And like, and,

Michele Baci: 41:43

you know, it's like, terrible things happen.

Katie Tamola: 41:45

You have to go and have terrible things happen. And sometimes I think you genuinely meet people, like I can name five blocks top my head, who I've met who like, I'm like, wow, like, that person Really? showed me hope or showed me what like, goodness is and it's not always in you know, like these like, brands like grand gestures. It's very much in like a Do you want to come over? Do you you can stay on my couch. You can say my guests are like, Oh my god, I got your coffee, like, just sometimes literally just getting someone a coffee or soda or a bottle of water like it when a person is down. Like these things mean a lot. So yeah. And that's so that book is called what comes after by Joanne Tompkins. And it was just very much like a interesting book, because you hear the plot, and you're like, that's so sad. That's so sad. But like for her to leave hope in almost it's like, it feels real kind of way. But that was really good.

Michele Baci: 42:40

I hear that like when you say the word hope in this context, I hear like the beam of light coming down. I'm like, oh, it does sound really hopeful. I want to I want to see how it comes out in the book.

Katie Tamola: 42:50

No, it's like, and it's so interesting. And it's just like, I really liked it. Because it's like, it's it's just, it was just so human. It was just very much like I got to interview the author. And she was wonderful. And she's like talking about like, inspiration behind it and stuff. And she just was like, and it's a fiction book, right? It's a fiction, but

Michele Baci: 43:11

it could be like, Oh, it's not that real. It's also fiction. Right? Exactly. It's

Katie Tamola: 43:15

very much like, it has the exactly, you're like you can kind of be like, oh, okay, like, you know, very much like, because there were times there was one time I really loved the book. Like, when I think of like 2021 books, that one really sticks out for me and a few others. But um, there were there was a time when I was reading book and I was like, Okay, I need to take a break just because like, it's upsetting. And that's, you know, that's like sometimes like I was just like, I need to take a break right now. And just because this is pretty heavy. And another book, let's see another book. two books that are like very, I think mainstream, for lack of a better term are Tuesdays with maurey. That's a very hopeful book by Mitch Albom. And like, just like very beautiful and very like another one where you're like, Oh my god, really good and special and thoughtful people exist and that's nonfiction. And then

Michele Baci: 44:05

that one another that was probably popular because it's so good.

Katie Tamola: 44:08

Right? Exactly. And then another book is A Man Called Ove, I believe the author's name is Fredrik Backman. Okay, I could be wrong. I don't want to be wrong, but he just came out with another book recently that I haven't read yet. But that book, a man called Oh, I can't recommend enough. My friend Amanda from high school recommended to me she's an angel. And that book had me my mom came into this room about four or five years ago, I was reading that book. She came into this room I was huddled over the book sobbing and she was like, are you gonna be alright? And I wasn't even like, I wasn't even burned because was sad. It was just like, so beautiful. And it was like, because you know, like, it's about this like curmudgeonly old man and like, he loses his wife and he just hates everyone. And this little girls like, hey, oh, and he's like, like, he's like dude away for me. Like it's just a really beautiful book. It's great book. Oh, I like that. Oh, yeah, no, I super Oh, give me up for a month nice old man any day of the week. And actually, like, one that I really appreciated was obviously Akilah Hughes his memoir, because she talks about her relationship with her dad. And like, I think that that I think that's pretty brilliant too, because she's so she's so funny. She's so

Michele Baci: 45:23

she was a podcaster. Right?

Katie Tamola: 45:26

What she says she, I believe she started on YouTube. She has a podcast that she's very popular podcast. It's called what a day. Yeah.

Unknown: 45:32

Okay.

Katie Tamola: 45:32

She's so smart. She's got a really adorable dog named Fauci.

Michele Baci: 45:37

I think I follow her.

Katie Tamola: 45:38

Yes, yes. She's but her the way she talks about she has this like, beautiful chapter about like, like, Daddy issue jokes about how like, Daddy issue jokes aren't funny. And as someone who's like, kind of had people like, maybe make a daddy joke or daddy comment about me, like, to me, I just felt like so like, I'm glad someone finally said it. Because it's really, it's not original. It's not funny. And like her book was and it just like, that's kind of like if you have a complicated relationship with a parent or someone like, I thought that book was really good.

Michele Baci: 46:12

Also check it out. I've ever shared just something about Akilah Hughes. I remember she met Dr. Fauci and told him Yeah, my dog is named after you. And he was like, whatever, like, not impressed.

Katie Tamola: 46:26

I remember he, like, I remember Jesus Mero interviewed him. And they were like, because I think he's from Brooklyn, if I'm remembering he is from New York. Yeah. And he's got he does have he does have our New York accent. But it's like a national fan. Oh, and I'm pretty sure we asked him about it. But he like threw out the first pitch. I think like he threw out the first pitch last year. And like when they the MLB had a shortened season, but I literally was like ask like, they like give him shit for being a national fan. Like Brooklyn like to be Yankee fan. inexcusable. Yeah, that's just being straight up irrational. Yeah,

Michele Baci: 47:02

that's funny. I read as he should be with Dr. pouchy. Give us some give him some tough material to work with.

Katie Tamola: 47:08

Someone's got to push back against the medical lifesaving genius. I'll do it. I'll be the break.

Michele Baci: 47:16

We got Joe Biden and Katie tamala. Take them on. I like that. Did I so your therapist, Dana, have you been working with her? Like, for a long time? Was she was she an asset when you were like going through a lot of grief about your dad?

Katie Tamola: 47:31

That's a great question. I so I'm a Dana. I'm Athena. Like, right. When I was in that class with you, okay, everything happened then? No one really, ever. I think I even told you guys or I might have mentioned I was going through like a really, like, it was like the first like, real relationship I was ever in. And like it was ending. And it was like, it was just a perfect storm of things. It was like, going through this thing with this guy. And like, I kind of felt like, Dana and I just talked about how I'm a late bloomer. Like, I didn't really have that in high school and kind of in college, but like 25 was when I had like, the boy, and then like, didn't, and it was just kind of like, Whoa, this is a different kind of pain, you know, where you're not like, you don't even necessarily need to have to be like crying every day, you're just kind of sit and you're like, I envisioned so many things with this person. And now, you know, and now you look back at your time and you're like, Oh, you know, like, I don't even you know, I haven't seen that person years. And I hope they're doing well. And like, you know, I don't even Yeah, and you know, I'm happy with the paths that we you know, that I took, you know, all that but time did heal it. Right time did thank God and, um, but 20 2015 2017

Michele Baci: 48:43

I like that. And Khun butterfly kind of moment sounds like,

Katie Tamola: 48:47

Oh, yeah, for sure. Right, and you're just like, and I'm sure he like, you know, and it's just, it's and it's cool to have, like, you know, is that breakups of tough man and like, and I haven't, you know, never, like, we're never good. It's never really and like, I'm not really out here, like, the bachelorette. Like, I don't have a ton of suitors ever. Like I used to think that I like meant to do to date me every five years, like because it literally was lining up that way. But I'm trying to stop making self deprecating jokes. That's a good,

Michele Baci: 49:19

that's a pretty good timeline every five years, then you get shut down in between.

Katie Tamola: 49:23

I think that Yeah, we're almost at your lane, okay. And I'm just gonna put all my eggs in that basket, you know, hold out for that, um, know if it's a pattern or not, you know, the pattern. You know, I just did the one math I'll rely on but um, so I found her through my insurance in 2017 when I just felt like, I was having problems with my dad, like, just kind of my dad told me he had cancer and like, it was just like, and I just like felt guilty because we were fighting all the time and I hadn't seen him in months and I was like, wow, I'm you know, kind of peace shit because I have Seeing him, but not Thank you. That's it was just like,

Michele Baci: 50:06

it was a perfect storm.

Katie Tamola: 50:09

It was a perfect storm. Yeah. And it was very much like I had a few struggling with a friend and who I really cared about who was struggling with addiction. And it just kind of put me into like, I was I was I remember one time I showed up with Dina's, I think I had like, saw her for like, six months when I did this. I showed up to her. And she opened the door and she was kind of like, Look, you know, when you like, open the door, and you're like, kind of like looking down because she had a carpet, she's making sure it was getting caught and she like open the door. She's like, Hi, Katie. And she looked up and I was already sobbing, hadn't even stepped into I just had like a terrible day at work. And I was like, and she was like, Oh my god, are you okay? And I was like, Oh my God. I mean what you know, but I felt better after I cried called told my friend cuz she she's setting off some Fifth Avenue and I sometimes I'd walk homes like a mile wasn't it and it was like around the summertime so it'd be nice. And I told my friend I was like, most effective way to clean up all my work makeup is just cried all off on natural. She was like, She's like, you're really

Michele Baci: 51:10

natural way to clean it off.

Katie Tamola: 51:13

Literally saving the environment with my

Michele Baci: 51:17

nothing needs to buy a degree because it's all coming out of me. It's all on my cheeks. That's so nice. It sounds like she's kind of the therapist who like will get you that bottle of water when you need it or like is like yeah, oh, cry. She's, she's,

Katie Tamola: 51:34

she's awesome. She's She's really cool. I can't say enough positive things about her. I she's great. She's, um, got a wonderful heart. She she's just there for me, which I think she's really there for me. And she also she helps me like challenge myself sometimes when I need to be challenged. And yeah, she's awesome. And she's funny. She thinks I'm funny, which like, it's such a huge ego boost, like,

Michele Baci: 52:02

the therapist has to appreciate your zactly Yeah, otherwise, you're gonna be like saying you make extra jokes. If someone doesn't like your humor cuz you're like, why won't they laugh once?

Katie Tamola: 52:13

entirely. I'm like, No, literally, that's me. I'm like, Oh, they didn't laugh. So I'm just gonna double down. They're like, please, please. Yeah.

Michele Baci: 52:22

And I like that she, she catches your like self deprecation too. Because that you have to do like in smaller doses, because no one likes all self deprecation. And it's not good for you. So sometimes someone needs to say like, hey, tone that down. Love yourself a little bit.

Katie Tamola: 52:38

Right? She Yeah, she's, and it's funny, cuz she has, like, it's so funny. She's like, She's such a good therapist, because like, she'll just be like talking and then she'll just kind of like, make and like observation. She'll be like, trouble saying no. And then she'll just like, move on. And I'll be like, or she says, like, because it was like, we were talking. I was like, that might you might be right. And then another time, we were talking about something. And she said to me, I hope you're setting your sights high enough about like, she was asking me about dating, which I thought was like, such a nice compliment. And like, but she was really what she was saying. She was like, she was telling me she was like, I think you and everyone deserve someone who like says she's talking about, like, just dating certain people and just being like, you know, if you were in a desert, and they had water, would they give it to you? Even if you guys were hanging out for a month, like, and I've like dated people have been like, I don't know, when she's like, maybe you should take people that you do know, they would be like, let's put this bottle of water in the desert. Yeah,

Michele Baci: 53:41

like you gotta raise your standards, a certain amounts be like, this is this is totally what you deserve. Please let yourself find that. And it's

Katie Tamola: 53:49

so it's so true. And I think that's always that's always been really challenging for me, like, just into datings like an entirely, it's in its own League of like, challenging for me. I just, I was told Dana said to keep doing like, I just don't feel like I've ever been good at it. And like, I don't know, like, it's it's so many layers and stuff but hard I as it's hard. Yeah. Cuz it's like, you know, it's like, how much do you know, and then also, when you're dating, when you haven't, like, dated someone that you really, like, connect with for a really long time. And then you just feel like you've been on 20,001st or second dates, and you're just like, you're like, wait, like, and some of the things to dating, like my friends and I will just like trade with it. Like I went on a date with a guy who I had dated a few years ago. And he was like, let's, you know, let's, you know, hang out and get something to eat to reconnect. And he is not a bad guy. But he just like said to me, this was like two months ago, he was like, Yeah, I can't imagine what it's like, like dating as a woman who's like, and your biological clock is ticking. And he said it like two or three times during the meal and I was like, you're not a terrible person. But if you say that one more time, I'm going to just like lay on the sidewalk. And think about Whatever it is, you

Michele Baci: 55:00

have to like, I think if it was me, I would have to call that out and be like, if you ever want to talk to a woman again, like please do not mention the biological clock we are aware. Like, I don't need anybody to

Katie Tamola: 55:14

worry about any my clocks, I get it. Can you worry about all your

Michele Baci: 55:18

29 years old, he's talking to you like you're 50

Katie Tamola: 55:22

This is ridiculous. Like, I was like, and I was like, man, I was like, I just do not. And like, and that's all like, the more like positives I've had. I'm the one time I was in Boston wasn't even Latinos. Like just to show like, little even, like, even worse comments I used to have standing I was at the bar was like, 23. And this guy comes over. And he's like, you're, you know, just a handsome, random, you know, kind of looks like he went to UConn white.

Michele Baci: 55:52

And he was like, unimpressive.

Katie Tamola: 55:54

We were talking. Now, you know, you're just talking. And he was like, yeah, and all of a sudden, all sudden, mid conversation, he stops, and he gives me one of these. And he's like, You're cute, but I have like, really high standards. And I was like, and I spent the rest of the evening talking. Literally have a back and I'm like, you shouldn't blink with your words been like, I'm gonna kick you and then maybe actually kicked him like, and I always joke with my friends. I'm like, I guarantee he's married right now. She's probably blonde, and I'm probably wonderful kind to men, and I guarantee they're married. I'm guaranteed he's married.

Michele Baci: 56:31

Way too much credit.

Katie Tamola: 56:33

Right. Like, I just I feel like sometimes that's like the world but but now I'm like, Oh, absolutely not. Now I just like, if it's online, I'm like, unmatch I used to feel bad. I used to be like, Oh, he just he you know, he mentioned being naked. But like, maybe he's a really good person and spend Sundays with his grandma now like, No, Ill, you're acting like a pig on match, please move out of New York. So I don't want to share a state with you. And

Michele Baci: 56:56

yeah, never, like you have more boundaries, at least for like, when you're chatting before anything happens, which is good,

Katie Tamola: 57:02

right? I'm just like, you get to a point where you're like, Okay, you know, like, and you also want to point in saying was, I think the thing being single for such a long time, too is like cuz I've been, you know, I've like dated here that here and there. And I met like a few, like, not terrible dudes, like, over the past couple years, but like, haven't found what I'm looking for. And also, like, when you I think you get to a point in your life where you've seen you see it from other people and books, fiction, nonfiction movies, Maya, whether you're

Michele Baci: 57:36

gathered all the experience,

Katie Tamola: 57:39

you and you just know that like, you know what, sometimes I'm like, I'll go home and I'll be alone. And I you know, sometimes I'll feel lonely or whatever. But I would rather be alone than with someone who makes me feel like absolute shame, or someone who makes me want to like, is like, I don't like you know, who doesn't want to be with who I am. You know, like, I'm like, I'm good. You know,

Michele Baci: 58:01

anyone who's bringing negativity into your life who's not making your life better? You do not have to settle for that or have time for that someone who tells you I have high standards. He just tried to feed you a challenge and like, make you beg for it. Right? Like that's his own problem.

Katie Tamola: 58:17

Like, sir, you're at a shitty bar in Boston. You can't have that high standards. There's like a fishbowl behind us, like, What are you talking about? But live and learn? I suppose.

Michele Baci: 58:30

Yeah. Like, I feel like you should have done a mic drop and like so do I just walk away? Clearly,

Katie Tamola: 58:35

I should. It's not up to your crna It's so funny because I like forget things like this, that my friends and I would just like trade, horrible stories. But

Michele Baci: 58:44

you know, sometimes, you know, one day we'll trade a bunch of good stories, and it'll all be fine. You know? And honestly, you look back on those times. And you're like, that was the most interesting time in my life. Because you're just like going through like, oh, total psychopaths and you're like, how did these people exist? Why am I talking to them on hinge?

Katie Tamola: 59:03

Yeah, no, it's, you definitely do look back and you're like, that was an experience that we had. I had, and there we go, I'll

Michele Baci: 59:12

never bar the same.

Katie Tamola: 59:16

I'm like, I will be staying in the new guys. I'm just gonna make friends with the Uber driver. We're gonna take Boston by storm. I'm going to be like the person who hands out gum and water bottles in the back.

Michele Baci: 59:29

But oh my god, I if I could give you like, a question. So have you ever dated someone who you know he went to therapy or like he did therapy for a while? So I feel like that puts him on another level.

Katie Tamola: 59:41

Oh, my God, that's such a good question. I was. I hope he doesn't. So into the name drunk. Now, I was so into a guy a few years ago because he was very good looking very, very good looking. He'd like to books. So I'm already like, like, whoa, whoa, you'd like to go And he had we were like talking and he had met because we were friends and then just kind of, like, kind of, you know, just feelings of hurt, I guess. And he was like, yeah, you know, like, I'm, yeah, I started seeing someone. And I was like, that is such an attractive thing that you just said, like, I did not say that to him. But like, it was just attractive for several reasons. But like, also that made me feel like I could be more myself because, like, there, you know, when I, when I've been like talking to someone, or if I've been dating someone, I'll be like, I have to go to therapy at on Tuesday. And like, I sometimes I've had to go go to bosses and be like, and sometimes I just like, don't feel like I still feel like there's a stigma. So I'll be like, I have a doctor's appointment. I like my like, go to I'll be like, I have a doctor's appointment. And I'm pretty like, I read. You know, I've written about mental health, I have a lot to learn and experience, but like, I like it still in life.

Michele Baci: 1:00:58

But it's hard. In New York's people kind of like, keep to themselves more to LA everyone's like, you want to know everything about me. Do you have? Do you have a day like, they want to share it all. And in New York, people are like, walk faster, like keep going, like, we don't have time. They're like,

Katie Tamola: 1:01:15

like, Katie, that's totally cool. Go to your doctor greets her. It was like, it's 545. And I have a meeting and I'm like,

Michele Baci: 1:01:21

I don't want to hear about it. I'm full calendar.

Katie Tamola: 1:01:24

Literally. They're like, we please go. Um, but he Yes, I remember that experience. And yeah, he was. That was I was like, wow, I was like, because, you know, he just and what was like attractive that it was he was like talking about, like, you know, he's like, some things are hard. And I it helps me to talk to someone about it. And I think that's such a that was just like a beautiful sentiment and I think something that a lot of people can relate to. And like, I think a few people can relate to like having dated, dated or been involved someone who's like, oh, like, you know, who just kind of like makes you feel like shit if you aren't happy all the time. And like, that's just not someone I want to hang out with. I can't hang out with someone like that. Because like, there are gonna be days where I'm gonna be like, I want to be in bed from some, you know, sunrise or sunset. Like I don't want to do this. And as much as I'd like to do cartwheels down Second Avenue, Allah goddess, Simone Biles, I cannot do that. Like, I'm just having a dance. And then I think you sometimes the people were like, that's okay.

Michele Baci: 1:02:27

Yeah, yeah, you need people who can get where you're coming from. Right? weren't like smile. Please, so much prettier if you just smiles. Oh, my

Katie Tamola: 1:02:39

thing to say? Literally, I'm like, Well, I guess I guess this is the face. We're all getting

Michele Baci: 1:02:45

too real. But I think that's something like my boyfriend has done therapy a lot in the past. And then in quarantine, like, we did it together. And now he's doing it again on his own. I feel like you constantly have to be working on yourself if you want to grow. So that's something I look for in a partner like someone I'm going on a first date with. That's a good sign. Right? For sure. No, I think that's awesome. And I want to just tell you and everyone listening, Don't settle for anyone. My one of my therapist said like people who were around the age of 30 tend to settle make sure you're not settling. And I had to like ask myself and I was like, I'm not settling. I just, you know, want to complain about some stuff and fix some stuff. I don't I don't think I'm settling it.

Katie Tamola: 1:03:27

Right. No, you're from what i've like heard on your podcast and stuff. He sounds like a good dude. And you deserve the best. But I also think it's cool that you like just taking the time to be like, thinking about like, Yeah, no, and I think that because, you know, the world does kind of sometimes they sometimes it just the world will make you feel like shit and like it'll like yes, I am my friends. My one very close friend. I have also talked about being like the single friend because I have been the single friend for like, what feels like my entire life. And that's fine. But like she she's felt that way too. And like, sometimes people will comment on it. Like I was at a dinner a few months ago. And like friends of friends. They had to cheer something and they were kind of making a joke and they were like to Katie finding a good man. But it was like sarcastic it didn't really feel like they were laughing with me and kind of felt like they were laughing at me. And I was like, you know, I was like again? Like, like I said, like I'd really rather be alone and not feel like I'm with someone who would you know who's doesn't think that I'm great? You know, like wow, or who makes me feel like shit like, why I can go I can call people on my phone if I want to feel like shit. I have like, five people I can think of right now one like they will you know, make me not feel that I have that. Yeah,

Michele Baci: 1:04:52

I mean, whoever made that toast. I don't know what his problem was. But like I feel like the key to it all is just knowing you're so comfortable with your Sounds like you are the best person around anyone who's in your company should be so lucky to be there. Like, that's how I began to think of myself. And it definitely attracted more people to me to the point where I'm like, No, no, no. Like, you could like turn people away at a certain point because like I become more magnetic when you realize I'm the shed. I'm the best person here.

Katie Tamola: 1:05:21

No, that's dope and that's what that's what my that's what I've heard that that like, just definitely like a try when you think that way, attracting more people. So definitely something that I'm you know, trying to think better myself always but definitely something I struggle with every day.

Michele Baci: 1:05:38

Yeah, and I see laughter syndrome doesn't help either. So like combating that combating. That's a good first step. imposter syndrome, my BFF imposter syndrome. Oh, the problems it causes. pheidole question before we spend the wheel or if you want to vent about anything, but tell us about Twitter. Why did they kick you off? And are you still back? Are you still on Twitter? Are you back?

Katie Tamola: 1:06:05

Oh, I'm still off Twitter. I am. Okay. So I it's so like, Oh man. It's like nervous laugh.

Michele Baci: 1:06:16

Do you want to get in sighs I saw I was like what happened?

Katie Tamola: 1:06:20

So I am a very obnoxious Yankee fan as I shared my friend is a very Hi, are you okay? Yeah. I'll be done in a minute.

Michele Baci: 1:06:35

Wrap up. No, mom comes first.

Katie Tamola: 1:06:38

No, no, no, your boy. I probably had a question. Um, so I so he runs a he runs a Yankee like fact account. He's really good, really smart guy. Cool, cool guy, friend of we've decided we're friends. He's sweet. And he I met him through Twitter. And then he runs this satirical Yankee. And they post like fake headlines, but a lot of people thought it was real at first because it had like a similar New York posts like the newspaper in New York Post logo. And like they're written like real headlines are very funny. So on Mother's Day, the Yankees like came behind. Come up come from behind when wasn't really expected to do it great when like nail biter and like, I think that game was they wanted the bottom of the ninth the game before they won that sure. And it was like it was stressful. They were losing both games at one point. So people are very hard on the New York Yankees manager Aaron Boone or a boon is amazing. He wants sent the Yankees to the playoffs against they won a walk off against the Red Sox in 2003. If I'm remembering correctly, just an iconic man love the men love now. And people are like he I tell people like he reminds me of myself if I managed the ACC very much seems like just like everybody walks in and he like has this almost Ted lasso. But like a more serious Ted lassa where he's just like, Hey, man, you're great. You're all doing great. And we were trying our best and like, Well, you know, he's just very like positive and very like, and like people been like, Aaron, you guys are like five and 14 and like have a word worst record in the American League, which they did. I think was like five and 12 I don't know if they were fine. 14 but they had the worst record in American League about my opinion on baseball, about like a month ago, they but I was also like, it's been 13 days like relax. So on Mother's Day. My friend wrote this satirical tweet, he was like to celebrate Mother's Day. And they're when Aaron Boone is taking out all the Yankees to Lamaze classes to like, find their Zen or like just like, obviously, like, just like picturing all these like, men are just like alone walking into Lamaze class on Mother's Day, like made me laugh. So very sarcastically, I replied. I said. And Twitter was like, No, no, that sounds like

Michele Baci: 1:09:05

a threat.

Katie Tamola: 1:09:07

They put it they were like, that's a threat. So I, I appealed it. And I was like, I'm really sorry. Like, because I really do try to be my words, and I just wasn't that's

Michele Baci: 1:09:16

the reason you got kicked off.

Katie Tamola: 1:09:19

Oh, that's, and I feel I do feel bad. So I was like, I appealed it. I was like, Listen, I'm genuinely sorry. Like, I tried to be mindful of my words. And I'm sorry, I accept. I'm sorry. Except that I like messed up. I'm sorry. I just want to know, like is how long will this be for like, is this permanent? And I got an email on Friday morning. And it was like, we've reviewed your appeal. We saw that you still like broke Twitter standards and your account will not be reinstated God or your account. And so I replied again. Now I was like, okay, like, at all and then I tried to make a new account and I got suspended and I was like,

Michele Baci: 1:09:56

so that's such bullshit now like you have the guy Joseph who runs the account? Could he like appeal for you?

Katie Tamola: 1:10:04

That's a good question. I think I'm gonna have to message him and be like, yeah, there's some witnesses, but like, they're like, yeah, they're like super intense about like, they like when I sent the email. They're like, we have like a high like response volume right now. So it will take, but tomorrow will be two weeks and like now I'm just nervous that I'm not going to get, I'm not going to get it back. And I've like, built relationships with writers and stuff. You're super active on Twitter. Really? I you know, I see

Michele Baci: 1:10:31

you all the time on there.

Katie Tamola: 1:10:34

Thank you, buddy. I know I'm super bummed about it. I and I feel guilty about everything. Like when I mess up, I feel bad that I've messed up. So I was like, I'm sorry. And like, but I also am sad because like, I'm, you know, I'm current and then somebody else was like, somebody compare me to Donald Trump. Like a few of my friends have jokingly done that. I'm like,

Michele Baci: 1:10:51

maybe need to make like a Russian account and they'll let you back in for like, American flag Russia name, talk about it, and you're good. You're good to go. There we go. You have to strategize. That's so crazy. I can't believe that's the thing that Twitter's like attacking this. This girl made a joke and it's about killing someone. And also the Yankees. We can't stand for that.

Katie Tamola: 1:11:18

No, it's all a mess. And it's like, yeah, so it's not not my finest hour. And it's a Thomas and Anna. Yeah. checks out for checks out.

Michele Baci: 1:11:30

Yeah. I'm not perfect.

Katie Tamola: 1:11:31

I know, that sounds like something you do. And that sounds like Yeah, sounds like the unresolved. And I'm like, okay, I just I really hope I get it back. But now I'm honestly like, I feel like at this point, like, I might not want to have to write which is sad, because I use it for work and my thoughts and feelings, but we'll have to figure it out.

Michele Baci: 1:11:50

I think you know, if you have to start all over again. Maybe it's a blessing. Who knows? Right? Right, right. Let me know how I can help you. If you need tweets, if you need tweets sent. Let me know your name. So I don't want to keep you too long. Tell me what would you would like to do you want to spin the wheel? Or do you want to vent about anything of your choosing? Spin the wheel? Well, let's do it. Love me a wheel. So good wheel. What have you learned lately? What if I live illegally? If anything? If not, we can spend again?

Katie Tamola: 1:12:34

Okay, good question. Um, I think I've learned that. Sorry. It's like, I think that I feel like I've learned, it's like, you know, like, you think of like, little things and the big things, you can mention things and then I'm like, it comes to mind. Um, I think that it's like, I'm not even trying to be funny. Like, I'm super sad that my Twitter got suspended

Michele Baci: 1:13:07

for you, I think the takeaway

Katie Tamola: 1:13:12

but I also like, um, like, it made me think about like, words and stuff, like, just about the weight like, and it just made me think about how I would never actually like threaten someone, but like, how, like, something Aside from that, just like words like, you know, the things we say to people how they like, even not in this instance, but like that they carry weight. Like I've just been thinking a lot about the this, I've been mad at myself. And then I've just been thinking about, you know, this kind of, like, cursory comment I made. And then and then it just made me start thinking about like other things. And I was like, words really have wheat. Like, I even if it's something that's like, this is totally on the other foot, like totally out of left field. But I'm a big like, when I ended conversations with like, people, especially if I love them, like I'm just, you know, we don't know what tomorrow brings, which is cliche that a lot of people say, but we really don't. So I'm big on being like, I love you by like, I'm just very much like, if I love you, like I'm going to tell you, and I'm going to tell you like maybe four times in the day, like maybe I will maybe I don't know. So I think we've just been talking about that, you know how like, our words mean things even you know, even if it's like the I'm kicking myself because I said something about Yankees and all my classes I should have said or you know, something I'm thinking about, you know, like, just like looking at someone or even if syntax has just been like I care about you, or how are you or that kind of so you were provoked with the lavas Classic.

Michele Baci: 1:14:39

I would say you wouldn't have done it on your TV. Can you email me your Twitter handle? I will personally email Twitter and be like, here are my words. Here's my defense of Katie's himolla Please let her back on.

Katie Tamola: 1:14:53

It's so stupid. They kicked you off. So funny. I just I just taught my friend like I don't know if I can say this cuz I'm like, are they gonna delete my friend gave me her like old burner. I like started a new Twitter ads on tamala tweets, but like I have no, like followers and no and I'm like all these authors who I once got to follow me You're not gonna follow me again and but I'm like it's okay. No we said like hey do you just

Michele Baci: 1:15:22

like it's it's your brand new slate time to go viral? Yeah No I'm yeah, no, here we go here so please let me know I want to write an angry email on your behalf oh I would love that I don't want you to do that I are busy woman on after you I love writing angry I'm all about it. I love your that. Thank you Katie. It's been a pleasure. Tell us where to find you if not Twitter Where else?

Katie Tamola: 1:15:52

It's been a pleasure. Thank you. My writing all my writing is on www.katietamala.com and I'm that's also my Instagram handle. And my Twitter handle if it ever gets reinstated my twitter and Instagrams our handle at sign @ Katie tamala my backup Twitter right now is Tamola tweets, which sounds like a like a, like a person coming in like, like kind of sounds like spaceships. I don't know. And yeah, you can probably find me. You know, maybe having a cathartic cry with a nice coffee and near these village probably, probably thing you can do. And thank you so much. This was wonderful. I learned my

Michele Baci: 1:16:33

Of course. Thanks for taking the time.

Katie Tamola: 1:16:36

Of course, of course,

Michele Baci: 1:16:37

This has been Therapy Roulette consent to vent!. If you enjoyed this episode a few very quick things you could do to help the podcast are leaving a review Review, you can leave me a review on rate this podcast.com slash therapy, or you can leave a review. Wherever you listen to podcasts. It only takes a couple seconds to do and it really helps spread the word. tell a friend about the podcast, anyone who's into mental health or comedy, or who needs to, like, hear about mental health and comedy. If you think they'd like the podcast, tell them text them share the link. It really helps. It's just tell people about the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I'll be back with a new episode in two weeks. So not next Thursday. But The following Thursday.

Theme Song: Therapy Roulette: 1:17:40

Consent to Vent / Trauma disguised as comedy / Therapy Roulette: Consent to Vent / If you dont have problems, then youre likely repressing sh*t and you should find a therapist/ (Whos not me)